Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-07-2002, 02:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 29
Question 1998 C230 Hesitation/Fuel Issue

1998 C230, battery initially died and was replaced yesterday. I now have rough starting issues (need to push down accelerator to get the car started). Also, hesitation issues when attempting to accelerate, tach is going up, although it feels as if the engine is not getting enough fuel, jerking hesitation. Mercedes Benz technician (roadside assistance) checked the fuel pump yesterday as well and stated it was fine, he fiddled with the fuses as well.
Any ideas as to what the problem is ? Fuel injectors ? Fuel filter ?
Computer ? Car has 46,000 miles on it now.

Hesitation in mainly from 3,000 rpm's on up. Jump start was attempted before battery was replaced. OVP ?
__________________
1998 C230
1994 Infiniti J30T
1984 BMW 318i
1987 VW Golf GT
1975 Buick LeSabre Conv.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-07-2002, 06:44 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Running problems W/O having a check engine lamp on this car is rare! BY checking the fuel system computer for codes & LOOKING at the live data from this computer might help with diagnosis.
Mass air sensor is usually the culprit.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-07-2002, 11:06 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
I've seen this same problem on a buddy's 97 C230, which is the same driveline. He had a CE light on, though. Weird that you don't.

He needed a new MAS, and problem solved. MAS's are problematic on most new cars, as stringent emission controls have somehow mandated a new design that seems more fragile.

One thing though, is that the MAS (in Canada anyway) is covered on the 8-year 130,000 kilometer (about 80K-miles) emissions warranty. I think it's the same in the US.
__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-08-2002, 12:47 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 29
Question Thanks...

It is off to the Dealer early next week. Any ideas what a ballpark figure is for a Mass Air Sensor replacement ?? I will push the emissions warranty to see if it applies. I will also post results after
my service appointment.
__________________
1998 C230
1994 Infiniti J30T
1984 BMW 318i
1987 VW Golf GT
1975 Buick LeSabre Conv.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-08-2002, 04:41 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
Look in your warranty booklet to check the emissions warranty. The parts are all listed.

I think in the US a MAS runs about $500 P&L.
__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-10-2002, 01:26 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 29
Location of Mass Air Sensor-1998 C230

Any idea where the Mass Air Sensor is located ? Is it the wired device plugging into the hose coming out of the air filter box ?
Would it be beneficial for me to fiddle with this or possibly unplug it and attempt to drive the car ?

The car is eventually going into the shop next week, I would not mind doing some diagnosis this weekend and playing around with it.
__________________
1998 C230
1994 Infiniti J30T
1984 BMW 318i
1987 VW Golf GT
1975 Buick LeSabre Conv.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-10-2002, 06:08 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
It sounds like you've found it. It's located between the airbox and the fuel injection system.

Unplugging it won't work. The FI requires input from the MAS, and you won't have any success with that.

Also, from a warranty standpoint, it's probably covered, and if you monkey with it, they might deny you coverage under the emissons warranty. MB is not known for their tolerance of DIY attempts to fix warranty items.
__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-16-2002, 10:49 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 29
Question Suprise, it was the Mass Air Sensor

Dealer hooked it up to their computer and got codes leading to the Mass Air Sensor. They are also adamantly stating it is not covered under the 8/80k emissions warranty. They are saying it was only covered for two years. Is anybody a warranty expert who can comment on the emissions warranty and this specific part ?

They are giving a price quote of $540.00 for the part and $135.00 for labor. Is this about right ?
__________________
1998 C230
1994 Infiniti J30T
1984 BMW 318i
1987 VW Golf GT
1975 Buick LeSabre Conv.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-16-2002, 12:01 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
Where's your warranty booklet? Read it carefully. In my Canadian version, the emissions parts are listed, each and every one of them. The MAS is on the list, and is covered for eight years/130K from the delivery date, regardless of the warranty in place.

Also, your car originally came with a four year 50K-mile bumper-bumper warranty. If the dealer is claiming the original warranty is only two years, they're VERY wrong.

It sounds like you might need to either find another dealer, or call MBUSA (1-800-for-merc) to get more information.

One of my local dealers told me that if I did my own oil changes, it voided my warranty. BS! One call to MB Canada, and that information was clarified. The dealer backpedaled a little bit, but they were BUSTED.

And if you do end up paying for the part, check out fastlane on this site. Might have a better price. installing it yourself isn't all that hard, and I'm sure Gilly or some other tech could walk you through it easily.
__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-16-2002, 02:03 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 29
Emissions Warranty

Yeah, I have seen it listed in my warranty booklet as well. I think service advisers pick and choose who will be covered and who will not be ! Anyway, planning on venting a great deal of anger at the dealership tonight and pushing the emissions warranty.

1-800-for-merc would not confirm or deny that the part was covered. They refer everything to the dealer. So, I guess I need to retrieve my emissions warranty booklet, walk into the General Managers office at the dealership and ask him to read aloud for me.

Details to follow...I should have had them do the diagnosis and done the repair myself.
__________________
1998 C230
1994 Infiniti J30T
1984 BMW 318i
1987 VW Golf GT
1975 Buick LeSabre Conv.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-16-2002, 02:45 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
Just a guy
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,492
Well, you may need to take the issue further if the dealership refuses to cover the repair. I would be furious!

You will need to contact the Zone Service Rep, and begin making a big stink about this. If your warranty booklet indicates that the part is covered, it IS covered. Cripes. I've seen dealers trying to wiggle out of repairs that might be classified as goodwill (wiring harnesses) but not usually when something REALLY is covered. Why bother? All they have to do is make the reapir and then get the $$ from MBUSA. Simple. The dealer isn't out the money.

Sounds like your dealer is difficult to deal with.
__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-16-2002, 05:21 PM
JCE's Avatar
JCE JCE is offline
Down to the Wear Bars
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: So Kalifornia
Posts: 2,189
Also, the emission equipment is covered by federal law, and sometimes state regs - if they are refusing to cover the unit, perhaps you can refer them to regulatory attention! Usually even the thought of intervention by the feds or Air Quality agencies will stop any nonsense.
__________________
John

2003 Firemist Red/grey leather SL 500
2015 Palladium Silver/black mbtex GLK 350
1987 Smoke Silver/burgundy mbtex 300E Sportline (SOLD)

Click to see 87 300E

Last edited by JCE; 05-16-2002 at 07:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-17-2002, 12:58 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Potomac, Maryland
Posts: 29
Question Mass Air Sensor Not Covered

It turns out the Mass Air Sensor is NOT covered under the 8 year emissions warranty. In the emissions warranty booklet it clearly states any item with an * next to it is covered for 8 years. Any other part without an * next to it is covered for 2 years/24,000 miles. Some big parts are covered, like the ECU for 8 years.

This was discovered and understood after extensive talks with the service department manager, warranty manager, etc... The emissions warranty booklet is fairly clear, you need to read the small print on the bottom of the page. As luck would have it, my 4 year bumper to bumper warranty expired in Feb of 2002. So, not covered under 4 year since I was out of warranty time and my car was not purchased "starmark used".

End story, the car now runs better than new. They changed the oil, tightened the steering bolts, replaced the MAS & air filter, washed it, and the repair is now under warranty for 12 months.

One last question, is the MAS really a $540.00 part ? Why ?
I could have purchased a home personal computer for that much !
__________________
1998 C230
1994 Infiniti J30T
1984 BMW 318i
1987 VW Golf GT
1975 Buick LeSabre Conv.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-17-2002, 01:43 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Is anything worth what we pay for it??.
The MB list price for 000-094-09-48 is $442.!!
If you had a newer V-6 engine the part is $238.50 & they look & work almost the same.
IF they charged you $540 they made $274 profit!! Shame on them!! The part costs them $266.
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:27 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page