190E Ignition lock broken - Help needed
 

Ok, this is one to all you good techs out there...

I have got a broken ignition lock...

Some background on my problem:
Already done a search on ignition locks and found a lot about this topic. Unfortunately I didn't know all I know now earlier. So I know you'll have to turn the key until the tumble remover tool can be inserted. I haven't really been experienced problems with the lock before so this came up totally as a surprise. Must admit, not really a nice one :(. My car (W201) has just about 200 km on the odometer and I don't know if the locks been changed before.

The real problem is that I'm not able to turn the key at all. It is possible to insert and remove the key but it just don't want to be turned once it's there. Are there really not any good tricks left to do? Do this lock need to be removed the hard way? If so...I could use some good advices(READ: I really need them!). I haven't done similar jobs before but everything else on my car I've been able to fix on my own(for those who wonders:a broken sunroof, fan switch replacement, minor bodyworks, ovp-relay aso).

It can't to be that hard, right?...I haven't got the service manual but a Hayes is on delivery at the moment. Could anybody explain the procedure for "drilling it out"? I've already got some good tool and time is NOT essential. I got a week off :) and don't need the car :confused:. Anyway, thanks to all of you that can afford some of your time.

BTW...Tomorrow I'll try to order a new lock and set of new keys.

And to the owner/owners of this website: What would we, benz-owners, do without this site? You guys really knows how to put some sunshine on other peoples skies and get our benzes rolling...

You could try!
 

If the key is in the lock you should keep trying to get it to turn, it could help if you where able to impart some vibration to the key as you applied some turning pressure at the same time. You could always head down to the local adult toy shop and tell them you needed a large industrial strength model for this purpose!!!!! But seriously locksmiths use vibrations to have the tumbler pins moving as they apply pressure turning the key, eventually the tumbler pins are lined up correctly and the key turns, Voila! Good Luck!:D

key to paradise
 

I don't know if this can apply to your 190D, but when I had the problem on my 300D, I would jiggle the steering wheel
for about 30-45 minutes while simutaneously trying to get the key to turn with ease.
It takes time and patience.
Anther trick was to insert the key with the front tip slightly pointing down and applying that angle of pressure while turning.
It a mix of the above that finally got mine going so that I could replace the whole set up.

russian roulette!!

I feel some good vibes
 

First of all thanks for the advises! Vibrations was just what the lock needed. Here is the way I did:

1. Removed the trim list around the tumble.
2. With the key inserted (the one without plastic on it) I used a electric jigsaw, which makes some good vibes, and put the plastic handle of the saw against the key itself. This made it possible to turn the key with a small wrench. No violence applied!
3. Made a 2mm vire with ends cut diagonally and inserted it into the slots for about 2,5 inch. I found a great website for the w201 where this tool were described very detailed. Big thank you to the owner of this site. http://www.geocities.com/shvoldum

But here does the story end...I hear the klick as the vire goes in but the tumble is still stuck. I am working with the car at the moment but can get the tumble out. Am I missing something???

I also ordered a new tumble with keys(on my VIN#, of course) from my nearest dealer and he said it will cost me about 40 USD.

FYI...I wasn't missing anything. After several tries the tumbler poped out. Very well...

Thanks once again!

Sehr Gut
 

Are yoou Finnish-ed??





:D

:D:D:D Both yes and no. Yes, I'm finnish and no, I haven't replaced the borrowed tumbler with my new one. I will do this as soon as my dealer has the new tumbler for me...

BTW. The borrowed tumbler had a key which is larger than my former on. Is this a stock tumbler for any other benz model? And it looks like the two little holes for the removal tool was harder to reach. I can update on this later on...

Every dealer has a set of "shop locks" that are only used on a temp basis until the correctly keyed sets come from NJ. I had the same experience on my 300TE a few years ago. The key has a round, oval end to it and is pretty thick, right?

someguyfromMaryland

Yep, you're right. My temporary key looks exactly the same way.

Just finnished replacement of the new tumble and I must admit; It is so easy to remove the tumbler when you've done it once :D


I just love messing around in my car!!!:p :p

Replace ignition lock set 300sd
 

Great message for my problem also. But mine goes a little further. I have no idea where to start in removing and replacing the ignition lock set. If someone could describe the procedure in detail it would be greatly appreciated!!!

For additional info do a search on "ignition" and "tumbler."

There are two holes in the face of the ignition lock. You may have to remove some of the dash faceing to enable the steel cylinder (surrounding the tumbler) to come out.

1] Insert your key and turn it to about 2 o'clock, the Accessory position.
2] Push the tool into the two holes about 1-1/2" into the lock assembly to disengage the paws.
3] Once it disengages the paws within the tumbler, pull on the key and the ignition lock assembly and steel surround will come out.
*Removal of the tumbler assembly won't cut power to the accessories. So you can listen to the radio or tape while doint the R&R.

The "tool" is made from a metal coat hanger bent to form a "U."
1] The tool should be about 100 mm (4”) long.
2] The distance between the shafts [you insert in the holes] is 20mm.
3] A thick coat hanger wire of 2mm works well.
4] The shafts will go 40mm (1-1/2") into the lock assembly to disengage the paws.
5] File the ends to a 45 to 70 degree angle with short side on inside of "U." (You're pushing paws towardinside of tumbler.)

Bob
Email me off list and I'll send you jpg if it doesn't post here.

Bob did explain it very good.

If you wonder how to remove the trim piece around the ignition lock it's just to pry it with a screwdriver. It will pop out without any problem. I'm assuming your 300td has got the same lock.

Happy hunting :D

Thank you Bob for the great explaination. I got the acces cover off the dash and can see the black cylindrical cover and now understand how to remove the lock set with the cover off. The problem that I have run into now is I can't get the black cylindrical cover off. My car is a 1984 300SD (don't know if that makes any difference). The cover cylinder is loose enough to move up and down but it does not turn and I have had no luck prying it off. Ary suggestions?

The black barrel comes off with the ignition lock when you use the U-shaped release wire.

Fred, thanks for this thread link. I called my local dealership and was quoted Can $179.00 plus taxes for the tumbler and another 20 bucks for the black cylinder cover. They are not cheap.

I am thinking about calling an auto locksmith who may magically revive those nutty pins. Has anyone tried this approach?

I just replaced the switches in both our cars. Just do it and be done with it. You DON'T want it to fail where you cannot turn the switch to the position to remove it. Then you will wish you had just put in a new one!

Joel, there's no need to replace the barrel. I paid $80 for a new cylinder lock for our 1992 300CE at the local MB dealer. Contact Tom Hanson (800-252-6877 Ext. 306) at Caliber Motors in California for a price on a new cylinder lock for your car. I'm sure that it will be less than $90 including shipping.

Thanks Fred, I'll try that route.

joel
I called 3 US dealers and they were all the same at $92 for the tumbler. I don't know the CAN to US $ conversion rate, but it sounds like they're taking you for a ride, especially on the steel black surround that won't be damaged in the process.

The removalcan be frustrating to the point of giving up. Let your significant other or child try it. Offer to split the $ difference.

Bob

Bob, thanks for checking those out. At 35% exchange, there is still a differential of about 75 bucks. I will definitely mail order it south of the border.

Joel, be sure to mention to Tom Hanson that you're a MBCA member so that he gives you the club discount!!!!!!!

Re: Ignition lock broken - Help needed
 

After reviewing all the postings I noticed no one mentioned that if you have the valet key in like new condition, it may be just the thing to entice the tumbler off of the lock position...

Just trying to help, thanks.

With 200km, the original key probably is worn too much and isn't engaging the tumbler pins.

Rather than the drastic drill, I'd go to Benz dealer (with owners card VIN# and your drivers license - they require ID) order a new ignition tumbler & keys that you'll get in about 3 days.

Have everyone you know do the ignition key wiggle with the new key for a few minutes. Young children often have more patience and luck. Of course, the reward you offer to the successful "key master" can make for an interesting event.

Bob

The ignition tumbler on the high-mileage 190e just started "acting up" .... getting grittier to turn etc. Then the other day while waiting for a new tumbler it wouldn't turn with inserting the key .....

I sprayed graphite lock lube into the tumbler, used the key to wiggle several times and it finally turned! I know this is not the final solution, but for those in the throws of an old lock issue I highly recommend trying this stuff. It comes in a small can that is blue and white and has a snorkle attached. Found typically at a hardware store.

It is a bit messy but it works.

Haasman

I just changed mine. Got stuck, had to tow vehicle. Key would not turn to do the easy disassembly. Wiggled for hours over several days.

Saw a post on here to use vibration with a jigsaw. Pressed the jigsaw handle against the key and used a wrench to turn key at same time, turned in 30 secs due to the vibration! Disassembly of tumbler was 5 mins

Thanks to the people here!

The cause of the problem on mine was that the zinc diecast part (front face) had broen behind the black trim cover. Pins appeared to have nothing to do with it.

I suspect this is why the replacement tumbler has a stamped steel cover instead of the diecast.
Tom

just want to thank you all for a good advise. JigSaw worked perfectly.

Tumbler and ignition lock cylinder, are they the same thing?
 

Having read about changing tumbler before it goes bad. I am about to change it. Q1: Tumbler is ingition lock cylinder or tumbler is part of the ingition lock cylinder? Q2: Do we have to purchase it from the dealer with the prove of ownership? ( Fastlane sells ingition lock cylinder about $80.)
Thanks a lot.

Hi,

If you want key that matches your doors, you need to get it at the dealer with vin number and show your registration as proof of ownership. Was like $85 at my dealer.

Fastlane will be a generic version with another key.

If its at all sticky ,do it before you get stuck. I got stuck and needed to tow it.

Jeff

The answer to your "STUCK KEY & STEERING LOCK" problem
 

I just completed repairing the same problem. Except that it was in a 1983 300TD wagon. Remember that the insturment panel has to be removed to see the top of the lock assembly to work on it.
It was a very surgical procedure when I didn't know exactly what was causing it. However, This is what I found out after removing the ignition part of the switch with a die grinder. (Bummer....I didn't have to do that!) I ground throught he housing to cut off the top of the screws holding it in. You can't remove the wire harness plug unless the key turns and I thought that the problem was in the ignition electrical switch.
When I forcefully turned the key to try to turn it on I noticed that a rectangular plate, on the lock housing, exactly on the opposite side from the tube that enters the steering column, started to move a bit. Something under that plate seemed to be jamming the mechanism. I took a dremel with a small burr to grind out one edge so that I could pry it up and out. It is about 1/8 of an inch thick so I had to grind deep. I hammered a screw driver in under it to pop it out with its spring under it. Then I saw that it was a broken part. It was the top part of the steering lock rod assembly cap. It is quite thin cast pot metal attached to the cap. After I removed it I reached down in the hole with a wire hook and pulled up on the lock rod assembly. The key then turned freely and I could remove the key and tumbler. Then I reached in through where the tumbler was and pulled out the cam assembly holder. I then went down through the rectangular plate hole and pulled up and out on the entire steering rod lock. I tossed the rod and the actual cam and all springs and other little pieces of junk in the trash, but saved the cam holder so that I could reassemble the assembly without the locking rod and cam. I sawed off the broken remnants from the rectanular plate cap that could cause interference again and replaced the plate by tapping it in. I then reassembled the cam holder only, with the tumbler and the ignition switch and wire harness plug. NOTE: The key must be on the #1 position for any assembly and disassembly. When in that position slide the end of a paper clip into the groove cutout on the key face plate and push a bit....then proceed to unscrew the black surrounding cover that hold the tumbler in. It will spin right off and then the tumber can be removed to get to the goodies.
Maybe I can't lock the steering anymore, but I have over $150 saved in my pocket and the problem will never come up again in that car. Now the key only turns the ignition switch now, and the steering wheel seems to turn much smoother without that rod near it.
If anyone needs more details, just register with this site and email me....I have allowed emails. Be glad to help with any other probs you have....I took my whole car apart already!!!!

If your lock set up is the same as mine (and make sure it is) then you'll want to see this:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/200554-1987-300e-key-stuck-ignition-post1640662.html#post1640662

I have a 1986 420. I need instructions & an illustration on the ignition cylinder lock removal . Thank you very much . Victross

Refer to the attached link. Scroll down to Bob Weir's post dated 5-26-2004 which describes how to remove the ignition lock cylinder and also fabricate the U-shaped wire.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/37927-190e-ignition-lock-broken-help-needed.html

Hello everybody.. My first post here.

Was very glad to find this thread after some intensive googleing. Have got the exact same problem on my -90 190E w201. Been sitting about 5 hours now and trying to get that stupid key to turn! Gonna try with vibratons on the lock this weekend though. Thanks for the tip!
Anyone else had any luck when putting vibrations against the lock?