However, MB might be more or less gluing the seal in place to prevent it from vibrating out.

The FSM mentions using Sealing Compound 001 989 29 20 or 001 989 46 20 if the old Seal was leaking at the outer shoulder.Further, permit Sealing Compound to harden approximately 3 hours and do not remove insertion tool until then.



Also when installing, be aware that some parts don't have a bottom lip on the seal bore allowing the seal to be pushed all the way through.

Right you are. I won't know for sure how thick the wall of the oil seal bore wall is till I get the old seal out. Same with the thickness of the seal till I have it in hand. From what I've read, the seal can be inserted about 1 or so millimeters in past 'flush'.

__________________
Gute Fahrt

That's a blast from the past!

__________________
Gute Fahrt

A follow-up question regarding the Permatex Aviation Sealer .... I am getting all my 'shop supplies' lined up for my job. I picked up the Aviation Sealer as recommended.

My concern is getting that stuff between the Spacer Ring and the Crank Snout. The viscosity is pretty thick. If I apply the Sealer to the Crank and pull the Spacer Ring inward, I'm afraid the Sealer will be forced inward on the Crankshaft and drip down, even if applied sparingly. If I coat the inside diameter of the Spacer Ring and pull it inward, then the Sealer may remain outward on the end of the Shaft Snout. Hope I explained things clearly enough to visualize my concerns.

Permatex (other brands too) make a High Temperature Anaerobic Flange Sealant that they say is able to withstand temperatures to 400°F (204°C), and fills gaps up to 0.020”. Would that suit my purpose?

I don't want to overthink it, but I sure don't want an oil leak and need to repeat this bear of a job! Any thoughts?

__________________
Gute Fahrt

Good explanation on differing sealant placement.

Just wipe a bit on the crank snout where the spacer ring will sit. Pretty much a dab then wipe with a rag or finger. It is OK to see streaks / bare metal as it takes very little sealer to make things work because there isn't any room for the sealer to flow. Basically the sealer exists to take up any roughness in the metal to metal joint. Think very thin painting.

A bit of confusion seems to exist as to the use of the sealer in question.

The sealer is NOT used to mount the Spacer Ring on the crankshaft. Oil or perhaps anti-seize may be used to aid installation. The use of any sealing compound to mount the spacer on the crank snout would only serve to make subsequent removal very difficult. When the bolt that secures the front crank hub to the crank is tightened to 400Nm the spacer ring is quite well clamped between the hub and the timing chain sprocket.

The sealer IS used to install the radial sealing ring (lip seal) in the timing cover/oil pan bore.

Hi 97 & Frank,


Thanks to both of you guys for chiming in. So I guess no sealant is required between the Spacer Ring and the Crank Snout. I certainly wouldn't want to use any adhesive between the two, but I was under the impression that a non-hardening sealer could be used.

* I will be using Reinzosil between the outer Radial Sealing Ring and the Cover Bore. (FSM required 003 989 98 20 10). The inner lip of the Seal will either get an insertion coating of some 90W gear oil or SilGlyde, between the Sealing Lip and the Dust Lip.

* I am planning on using Permatex Water Pump & Thermostat Gasket on exactly those two gaskets, putting a very minimal 'finger smear' on the Gasket contact surfaces. From their product description - "A noncorrosive, sensor-safe RTV silicone gasket material formulated specifically for water pumps and thermostat housings. Highest water-glycol resistance available in an RTV silicone."

The only question that has popped up is this:
I found an image on the net which I borrowed and posted here. Moderators please delete if not Kosher.

The Spacer Ring seems to be installed so deeply that the Dust Lip of the Sealing Ring is not making contact and would be ineffective. (See attachment) I initially thought that the Ring gets pulled in so it abuts the Chain Sprocket. Perhaps not?


Composing this post at 0630 is way too much mental strain!

Attached Thumbnails

 

__________________
Gute Fahrt

The Dust Lip runs on the hub of the balancing disc.
The Spacer Ring does abut the sprocket; it is clamped between the sprocket and the hub of the balancing disc, as stated previously (above).

Thanks Frank.


Got it!


Mark

__________________
Gute Fahrt

A note about putting sealant on the ring of the seal: This is only necessary if the old seal has been leaking from between the seal and the seal bore and if so, sealant should be put just on the joints of the block and upper pan.

If you replace the water pump with a quality pump, it will come with a thicker gasket than a run-of-the-mill gasket and in this case using a sealant is not recommended.

__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them

You are absolutely correct regarding the FSM and the mention of when to apply the sealant. As I mentioned in my thread title, my seal is pushed out a millimeter or two right now. I'm not sure why. To be on the safe side, I will opt to use a slight smear of the Reinzosil on the surfaces you mention. As I recall, the FSM also says that when using the sealant, not to remove the seal insertion tool for 3 hours, so as to permit the seal and sealant time to bed in and cure.

I am installing a Graf water pump. (I couldn't find Laso pumps anywhere.) The gasket that came with the pump was creased during shipment and is unusable. I purchased a Reinz gasket as a replacement. For the thermostat housing, I have an Elring gasket. I must have read a hundred threads on whether or not to use gasket sealant/ dressing. As you can imagine, it was about a 50/50 concensus, with some pretty crazy answers. (I'm surprised no one recommended using peanut butter! ) I agree, in a perfect world with perfectly flat milled surfaces, the gaskets should go on dry. Less than that, sealant compensates for surface irregularities. The only question that remains in my mind ... what would it hurt to use an ever so slight thin smear of gasket sealant anyway? Not even a 1/16" bead mind you, but a minimal evenly coated smear.

__________________
Gute Fahrt

Sealer on the spacer and / or hub is used to prevent long term weeping of oil. Yes it can be installed dry however the interface, while pretty smooth / clamped tightly, won't be fully sealed.

It sounds like you are using all the good stuff and I agree that just a slight amount of sealant could be used. I prefer not to on things that may have to be revisited in the future, especially aluminum parts, which can easily become scratched during cleaning.

Note of possible interest: I find the most difficult part of this task is re-placement of the balance disk onto the crankshaft. Because the dowel spaces on the disk don't reach the very end, it's difficult to align them with the crankshaft spaces - unless the motor is out of the car where you can look at it straight on. Unless you've very lucky, you will have to go through a "trail and error" process of getting it just right. Unfortunately, aligning the dowel spaces (disk to crank) requires the disk being mounted enough that it cannot be rotated about the crank for even minor adjustment. If the spaces are not perfectly aligned, it's off again with disk for a second and third try, etc. Not labor intensive - just monotonous.

__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them

From what I've read about the positioning of the balance disk, I am drawing the conclusion that it ain't gonna be fun. It would be great if the dowel spaces were bored the whole way through the disk. Then, some alignment pins could be used to guide the disk in. Although, if the bores did go the whole way through the disk, then there would be a great possibility of the pins falling back into the block during the removal/ pulling process of the disk.


I guess heating the disk is an option. I may use a heat gun to expand the disk enough, so as to be able to quickly slide it onto the crank nose and then rotate to align the pin recess bores. Possibly tapping the cutout in the disk laterally with a brass drift could help with the alignment. And if that's not enough of a challenge, then there is the issue of the pins being too long and needing to be trimmed, either prior to or after insertion. Either way has its pros and cons. I know 2 pins are required. I have 4. Hope that will be enough!

__________________
Gute Fahrt

The best way I know of is to rotate the crank so that one of the dowel bores in the crank is at 12 o:clock. This gives you a fairly close position to hold the balance disc to the crank and to begin to mount it. Again, it's trail and error, but who knows? You might get lucky.

__________________

Don't Chrome them; polish them

Day 1 - Gaining Access


I was tired of looking at it, thinking about it, and asking questions about it. All parts are in, all supplies are in. Being a Concours Benz, and not wanting to induce any collateral damage, I moved slow. The fan came out without a hitch. Watch out the blades don't gouge the radiator fins. I made a 17X22 inch cardboard cover to protect the fins.....just in case. I spent a fair amount of time with the radiator, undoing the coolant hoses, and unscrewing and capping the trans cooler lines. Glad I had 17mm and 19mm flare nut wrenches. The line bolts were tight. The belts were no big deal, just a bit tricky to access the loosening and adjusting bolts on the components. The six 8mm bolts holding the vibration damper and pulley came out easily. No rounded out heads. Damper and pulley came off easily. Last thing I did was saturate the bolts on the water pump, and the banjo bolts on the water pump to thermostat housing bleeder line, with rust buster. I'll hit them again before I go to bed and let the product work overnight. Tomorrow's another day.

Attached Thumbnails

       

__________________
Gute Fahrt