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  #16  
Old 06-25-2002, 07:59 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
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Well, I'll put my $0.02 in...

Without accurate diagnosis, you have NO idea of the extent of your damage. The dealer is shooting from the hip when they talk about the engine being damaged without AT LEAST a compression test and leakdown test.

Then, if those numbers are not up to snuff, it's time to figure out what did happen. Throwing a new $26,000 engine in is a pretty extreme solution without a complete diagnosis.

Excessive rich running can damage an engine. It could possibly result in hydraulic lock if raw gas is poured in, in a high enough quantity. It would have to be quite a bit.

Also, the gas could wash the oil off the bores, resulting in ring and bore damage. Keep in mind that the oil pump was still working (assuming) and SOME of the damage would be negated by that.

I would NOT allow that dealer any more time on the car. Why?

1. They "threw" the MAS and O2 parts at the car, without really diagnosing the problem.

2. Again, they ask you to throw parts at the car. This time it's an engine. Cripes.

Suppose you do need a new engine. Metric Mercedes sells V-12 rebuilts, and I think they are quite a bit less than the MB version. (Postulating)
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  #17  
Old 06-26-2002, 05:50 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 11
BAD ENGINE 600S

JERRY S RUN GET AWAY AS FAR FROM THE DEALER IN BOISE AS YOU CAN ....HAD SIMILAR EXPERIENCE WITH MY TRANNY LAST YEAR (300SL) AFTER THEY TRIED TO FIX BY TRYING TO PLUG DIFFERENT PARTS IN THEY SAID I NEEDED A NEW TRANNY FOR $4000. I RAN FAST AND GOT AWAY....AFTER CHECKING WITH MBSHOP FORUM FOUND PROBLEM AND HAD FIXED AT SHOP IN POCATELLO FOR A FRACTION OF THE COST, WORKS PERFECT. THE DEALER IN BOISE USED TO BE PRETTY GOOD BUT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS. MAYBE TOO GREEDY.
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  #18  
Old 06-26-2002, 06:43 PM
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busy
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Soperton, Ga. USA
Posts: 11,773
After reading through this thread a little I have to concur with Paul. Put it on a hauler and get it to a good independent shop. Look at it this way, you could ship it to one of the referenced independents, get it repaired, fly down and bum around for a couple/few days when it is time to pick it up and you will save thousands

Heck, for that matter you could bring it to my house and I could figure out if you need to pull the engine or not. hmmmm, wonder how that 5 cyl turbo diesel engine would look in that engine bay
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  #19  
Old 06-26-2002, 07:59 PM
jerry s
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I appreciate all the good advice, especially from the experience at Boise. MB was not only not helpful but somewhat offended that I even asked for help, and heck, I didn't really ask for money in my letter, just advice such as I have gotten here out of common interests and courtesy. Will definitely truck the car out, probably to California. Thanks much. Any phone numbers for shops there?
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  #20  
Old 06-26-2002, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
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I guess the one shop that many members here have had success with and recommend highly is Mr. MB Motors in Tarzana, CA:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?threadid=38339&highlight=Enrique

Enrique is the owner, and I even spoke with him today.

I made an appointment for next week to get my head gasket replaced, and to do the valve guides and seals.

If you're not familiar with the area, Tarzana is about 15 minutes from Los Angles on the 101 Freeway, headed North / West toward Ventura / Oxnard.
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  #21  
Old 06-27-2002, 01:16 AM
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Its just an inexperienced tech looking at your car. Probably in the manual it says if all these tests fail then replace the engine not do more necessary tests. Remember most these manuals are for warranty repairs. The MAF and O2 sensors were probably 75% necessary. If I were you I would take it to another dealer or look for a MB shop that knows V12. Complete engine failure sounds fishy. I really doubt it. My engine was running rich momentarily and I smelled Sulfur from my cats. If your engine was pushing that much fuel then it would be very noticeable. Sparks and smoke from exhaust. Did you ever check oil level between changes. I doubt that your oil washed away. What type of gas have you been using? Have you followed maintenance? I own an 96 SL600 and its been really solid. Look at your emmision smog tests forms. Has emmisions been increasing gradually. If another shop really recomends a new engine, then contact MBUSA and demand goodwill and you might be able to sue as a lemon. I know a shop located in Vanowen and Canoga called Monaco Motors. They work on my V12 and they service Ferraris, Porsches and Mercedes.
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2002, 10:20 AM
jerry s
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S 600 followup: Thanks group

Just heard from Enrique yesterday re my s 600 "blown engine" (see prior post) The engine was not blown, just had a leaking seal in cylinder 9 so that oil and/or coolant entered the engine, which produced the smoke. He cleaned out the carbon from the leak and somehow sealed the piston without even replacing it. Total cost about $3500, as opposed to the $6000 Boise estemated on the wiring harness, which wasn't the problem, and the $28000 they estimated to replace the "blown" engine if the wiring harness didn't fix things, which it would not have. I really owe you guys, especially the ones who warned me about Boise and recommended Enrique. Always a gentleman on the phone, called constantly with updates and he was more concerned about the cost that I was. I guess once you look $28K in the face for a car worth $35k a few thousand seems like pocket change. Still very disappointed that MB would not speak with me to give advice, though. Enrique told me over the phone without even seeing the car that Boise was wrong and the engine could not be blown from what I described; he owed me nothing -didn't MB owe me the 5 minutes it wouold take for a techie to give advice? Guess not. Thanks again guys.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2002, 11:14 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Dallas
Posts: 330
This story makes me sick. It appears to be the norm not only for MB but dealers of just about every other manufacturer. There needs to be more control from the manufacturer of its franchisees. Once a guy has exhibited sufficient net worth to buy a small island and the business accumen of Tony Soprano, he is granted a right to sell the manufacturers car. It seems like what the dealer wants to do is to service the car thru its warranty where it can get the maximum reimbursement from the manufacturer. Then it wants you to trade it in and start the process all over again. It will take your car on trade, certify it and issue an extended warranty, add $10,000 to its bottom line, and make a killing off you again. They basically don't want to work on older cars, leaving it up to us to find a reputable independent to get our money back in utility from the car. They run us off, not by saying they don't want to work on it because there isn't enough money in it for them, rather they stick you with an absurd repair estimate. I'm not going to buy any more new cars from dealers nor have them serviced at dealers until I reach the point that I have more money than sense.

That will be $0.02.
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2002, 05:59 PM
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Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
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Excellent outcome!

When I saw this post come back with an update, I had completely forgotten about it and was excited to find out what had happened.

I'm glad you followed my advice and took the car to Enrique.

He did the head gasket on my car, called me all the time with updates, always expressed that he would do everything to keep costs down, while at the same time fix everything that was broken, and even followed up with me a week after I picked the car up to see if everything was still o.k.

By the way, do you live in Southern California? I never picked up on where you actually live.

I live 51 miles from Enrique's shop, and I plan on driving there even for oil changes.
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2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2002, 07:18 PM
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Great outcome, and glad you liked enrique, I have known him for years, and have recommended him to many members here ont he forum, and am pleased to hear allt he good news and pleased to know that everyone has been satisfied not only with his service, but his commitment, his knowledge, and his concern for keeping the costs as low as possible.

Alon
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2002, 10:15 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Great White North!!!!
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MAYBE,JUST MAYBE...

if one of you guys could get a strand of enrique's hair we could clone him and have one in every area!but i bet we wouldn't have to sneek around to get it-it sounds like this guy would give you his left arm if he thought you needed it more than him.i've read alot of alon's posts and am always impressed with his mech.i wouldn't be surprised if,one day, i take a trip all the way down to cali and stop in to see this guy!i had planned a route to vegas,how far out of the way is this,alon?
i forgot to say that i think this is what this site is all about-help with no judgements made
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2002, 10:31 PM
blackmercedes's Avatar
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Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by suginami
I live 51 miles from Enrique's shop, and I plan on driving there even for oil changes.
Heck, I live 5000 miles from Steve B in Florida and 4000 miles from Donnie and gang at MB Autowerks in Atlanta, and I've thought about making that drive for service!
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2002, 10:49 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Great White North!!!!
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john

so it's a done deal,then.we'll take one hell of a road trip,EH?
p.s.i had to say it(eh) otherwise these guys wouldn't have known we're canucks!by the way have you seen the price of whale blubber ,lately?
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'95 s500 (bought for wife but can't bear to share!!!) 125kms
'92 legend 180kms
'88 tbirdturbo(fantastic car-only regular maint.)120kms
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'86 tbirdturbo(gone)
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  #29  
Old 09-13-2002, 12:34 PM
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Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
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It's exactly 250 miles from the Las Vegas strip to my house, and I live directly in your path to Enrique's shop, which is another 50 miles.

So 300 miles from Vegas, and the speed limit on interstate 15 from Vegas is 75 mph, but everyone drives 85-90, so you should be able to make it 3.5 hours.
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2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
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  #30  
Old 09-13-2002, 12:41 PM
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Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
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"Heck, I live 5000 miles from Steve B in Florida and 4000 miles from Donnie and gang at MB Autowerks in Atlanta, and I've thought about making that drive for service!"

Isn't that funny? I have thought of doing that, too...

:p
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2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
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