Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help




Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Technical Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-12-2002, 09:54 AM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tucker, Ga USA
Posts: 12,153
Thumbs down Jd Power !! News Flash

Terrible news for Mercedes!!! For the first time since JD Power started keeping records, Mercedes Benz has fallen BELOW industry standards for new car QUALITY!! This is the same level as KIA & Daewoo!

Come on MB get back to basics!!
__________________
MERCEDES Benz Master Guild Technician (6 TIMES)
ASE Master Technician
Mercedes Benz Star Technician (2 times)
44 years foreign automotive repair
27 Years M.B. Shop foreman (dealer)
MB technical information Specialist (15 years)
190E 2.3 16V ITS SCCA race car (sold)
1986 190E 2.3 16V 2.5 (sold)
Retired Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-2002, 11:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 399
Each year, each survey, it seems to get worse. But sales keep going up. Unfortunately, I don't expect any change until sales slide (if then). It is really a shame that M/B has become synonymous with expensive junk.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-12-2002, 11:36 AM
junior member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 592
far be it for me to defend mercedes, but, the nature of the survey is somewhat specious and arbitrary. someone buying a mercedes may have high expectations. higher than purchasers of more moderately priced items. someting that would not concern a kia buyer may bother a mercedes owner. and ergo the trip to the dealer. enough of my defense. my heart is not in this defense.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-12-2002, 12:56 PM
farena
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I own a W140 ('95 S500). From what I have read, and from what many knowledgeable Mercedes Benz enthusiasts tell me, this is one of the last quality products MB has put out. Having said that, I have had more than my share of problems with the car. However, it pales in comparison to my friend and his one year old S500. He says he will never buy another Mercedes. Hopefully, MB is working to get back on track. If not, their short term bubble of higher volume than ever sales, will no doubt burst.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-12-2002, 01:29 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern California, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,508
Yeah, I think it's embarrassing for Mercedes and I will not try and defend them.

There is no excuse for not getting quality right in the first 90 days of ownership.

I know that the argument in defense of Mercedes is that these cars have many electronic goodies, and that expectations are inappropriately high.

Well, that argument doesn't work for me as Lexus and Cadillac rank very high in this survey, and they have as many or more crazy electronic content as Mercedes.

The last time I was at the dealer, there were two different customers of new-ish s-classes that were in for the same problem the third or fourth time, and both owners were furious. One of them said they'd never own a Mercedes again, and the other would still consider it, but didn't think he could afford it after the warranty expired.
__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-12-2002, 01:31 PM
yal's Avatar
yal yal is offline
Benz-smart
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: New York, Long Island
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally posted by A. Rosich
Well, isn't THAT the whole deal about buying a Merc?
If you fork over $60k for a car, you should expect nothing more than perfection, period!

I agree, if JD changed its formula recently then maybe you could use that as an excuse. But JD has not changed its formula for evaluating cars in a while and MB just keeps scoring lower and lower each year.

Okay so yeah your late 90's MB may be around long after your neighbours Nissan gives up the ghost, but its looks like maybe its going to be a long frustrating relationship.

I have a 15 year old W124 and I have never heard an interior squeak or rattle. Yeah that damn CIS may be a pain in the butt sometimes, but hey it 15 years old!! So the head gaskette leaked after 13 years, so what. I heard someone in another forum complain that his C280 head leaked and that thing was only 5 years old What the heck is that about?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-12-2002, 01:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 571
MB quality has been damn sliding for that last 5-7 years. Now that they are aligned with Chrysler, things will get even worse.

Mercedes-Benz will continue to flourish for some period of time simply because there are a ton of yuppies in this country walking around with "look at me" attitudes. They're buying a status symbol.

Unfortunately Lexus has long since knocked MB off the shelf when it comes to new car quality.

I have a last-year 126 car and love the "gee I wish I had one of those" looks I get from people driving by me in their over-priced-Honda-Civic-looking MB cars.

Last edited by Mike Richards; 07-12-2002 at 01:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-12-2002, 01:52 PM
A. Rosich's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Posts: 883
Well, isn't THAT the whole deal about buying a Merc?

If you fork over $60k for a car, you should expect nothing more than perfection, period!

On other hand, if someone buys a cheap $12k Daewoo or Huyndai, as the old saying goes, "you get what you pay for," and of course he/she will be able to forgive some minor faults.

That is the problem with actual Benzes, particularly with the current W210 E-class and S220 S-class. Cheap feel materials, poor workmanship, no real M-B soul. The new E-class is proving to revert a little this trend, and whopefully the future S-class will revert it some more.

A. Rosich
S320, 1998
E320T, 1995
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-12-2002, 02:17 PM
Lebenz's Avatar
backwoods member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In the fog
Posts: 2,862
Has anyone thought that a few years of quality diminishing is part of the plan?

If you make slightly poorER cars for a while and then eliminate several of the problems. You a) get lots of customers, not knowing of the current problems that buy into it and b) get a huge pump a few years later when the quality of Mercedes is drastically improved. MB gets to save money now, while they are growing massively, make more in parts a little down the line and then pump sales when the improvements come along. For them, the stock holders, the parts manufacturers, and our friends, the techs, it is win-win-win-win all the way to the bank. Such is the power of a very long term reputation that is NOT known by the masses as being on the thin side of excellent.

Just food for thought.

This said, even though my ML has a few minor problems it is still a darrrrrrrrrrned fine ride with just under 24K miles on it. I like it for road trips more than my E. And I like my E *a* *lot*

Happy Motoring!
__________________
...Tracy

'00 ML320 "Casper"
'92 400E "Stella"
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-12-2002, 02:21 PM
haasman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,097
have a friend who started working for a Lexus dealership when it was a brand new franchise. He relates that all of the dealers and employees were continuously pounded on the point of the JD Power's customer satisfaction surveys. That is, each dealership, every employee must do any and everything required to make sure they receive the highest ratings possible.

It is my understanding as well that Lexus and shortly there after Toyota allocated vehicles based on these surveys. In other words, if you want to get the highest amount of vehicles allocated per given market area, you'd better have the highest customer satisfaction survey results.

My friend was told that he dealerships gave coupons to the customers for free services, dinners, and merchandise if they would a) complete the survey b) answer with total satisfaction c) contact the dealership if for any reason they could not do a) or b).

Now I do also believe that both Toyota and Lexus make good cars, after all experience and word of mouth lasts way beyond new car ownership surveys. But both these makes have done an excellent job of positioning the expectation of quality in their buyers: "They just don't break .... they last forever .... highest quality ...." etc.

Since dealerships and auto manufacturers are not required to disclose "real" warrantable repairs with part summaries (unless an inquiry from the government for safety recalls) the JD Power surveys are really what are called "manageable perceptions".

Again, don't get me wrong, I think these are good cars with genuinely good "real life" owner satisfactions, but don't talk to the corporate people or the marketing purveyors, instead talk to the techs and shop managers. Ask them how the vehicles fair in the real world.

My 2 cents.
__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07-12-2002, 03:28 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fl
Posts: 140
Thumbs up I heard they are on a budget now...

I have heard from different sources (here and car magazines) saying that newer MBs, W202 and over, were developed/produced with a more rigid budget than before. They said earlier MBs were developed with a more liberal budget and then given a price. This is why the late SL was said to be the last of the true MBs. Also that is why you see such a big difference in quality between the W124 and the next generation E ('96-'02). Anyhow, I still prefere an MB over other cars in the market. Perhaps I am biased by my background (IE/Human Factors/Usability), but I strongly believe MBs are very well desiged cars, and contained many well thought features with a strong concern for the users. I just don't see this in most cars.

On a side note, my father works at a Rolls/Bentley dealer and says a lot of the new models have to be fixed right off the boat, and all sorts of stuff goes wrong.

"Other above-average five-year quality improvements include American Isuzu (39%), Mitsubishi Motor Sales (38%) and DaimlerChrysler (27%)." J.D. Power and Associates 2002 Initial Quality StudySM
__________________
'02 C240
'00 LR Discovery
'72 280SE
'67 280SL

---past---

'79 280E sold (RIP)
'86 300E sold
'87 300SDL sold
'90 Laforza sold
'95 320SE sold
'98 ML 320 (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-12-2002, 04:02 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 2,503
I just don't know whether I even care about the JD Power survey. How a car behaves in the first 90 days just isn't important. I'm more concerned with how it's going to look, hang together, and drive when it's 9 years old. Heck, I don't plan to ever own a car that's only 90 days old - too expensive! While it would be better if there were no bugs in the first three months, that experience pales relative to the experience over the first, oh, seven or ten years. So far as I can tell, Mercedes is still a solid performer on these longer term timescales. The best? I don't know. So long as everything made by Lexus ranges from bland to offensively ugly, and I'm not near enough being dead to buy a Cadillac, guess I'm stuck with Benz...

BTW, I'm getting real sick of all this crap about the 210 being low quality. I own both an early 124 and an early 210 chassis car. I like the interior of the 210 *much* better. It has tremendously less plastic, more wood, more cloth, and more leather. The door panels on the 124 are 100% monotone plastic - no wood, no leather. The 210 has wood trim, cloth trim, and leather trim on the doors. The A, B, and C pillars on the 124 are plastic. The A, B, and C pillars on the 210 are covered with fabric. The headliner of the 124 is plastic. The headliner of the 210 is cloth. Wanna know which one has the richer looking interior - the 210, and it ain't even close. Anyone who says the 210 looks cheap doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

BTW, yes, I am grumpy today!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-12-2002, 04:53 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Fl
Posts: 140
Smile chill grumpy ;)

...the 210 might be more elegant... but the w124 pillars are all covered in more durable MB text type material, and the head liner is not plastic, its synthetic fiber which will most likely last longer than cloth. Our W203 has cloth on the pillars, and I am terrified to think if they ever get stained and hope they don't turn yellow with the sun

relax.....
__________________
'02 C240
'00 LR Discovery
'72 280SE
'67 280SL

---past---

'79 280E sold (RIP)
'86 300E sold
'87 300SDL sold
'90 Laforza sold
'95 320SE sold
'98 ML 320 (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-12-2002, 05:33 PM
sixto's Avatar
smoke gets in your eyes
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 19,745
Quote:
Originally posted by jcyuhn
I'm more concerned with how it's going to look, hang together, and drive when it's 9 years old. Heck, I don't plan to ever own a car that's only 90 days old - too expensive! While it would be better if there were no bugs in the first three months, that experience pales relative to the experience over the first, oh, seven or ten years. So far as I can tell, Mercedes is still a solid performer on these longer term timescales.
We may be getting to the end of the validity of that last sentence at least for the S-class. Folks seem a lot more anxious about pulling the trigger on an early W140 than on a 10-year-older W126. Even with the considerable difference in purchase price, I think most folks are put off by the potential upkeep of the newer MBs. Closing pumps and headrests are one thing. Power steering and AC are quite another.

I don't say this because I have a W126, but because I'm ready to move up and a W140 seems like a crap shoot.

I should have said financial crap shoot. No doubt it'll have a more luxurious feel.

Sixto
91 300SE
87 300SDL

Last edited by sixto; 07-12-2002 at 07:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-12-2002, 05:38 PM
Keith Lucy
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
It started in 1992

I was told, by a long time Mecedes-Benz fanatic, that 1991 was the last year that Mercedes-Benz simply built the best car it possibly could, and then put a price tag on it.

In 1992, they turned the process around. They started with the price tag that has a target market, and built whatever car they could while still making money.

Enter Chrysler, and the process becomes even more profit driven.

Do they still make a fantastic, top of the line, car? YES, as long as you steer clear of the mass market crap that they have been pushing lately.

Ever wonder what the "C" in "C" class stood for?

To me, it means CRAP.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2011 Pelican Parts - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page