Coil Spring compression
 

Hi all,

I am having a hell of a time trying to re-install my coil spring. Got the free loaner tool from VIP but will not fit back out after I have compressed the spring and installed. Should I use the outer type of compresor? the type with one on each side?

Any other suggestions?

Thanks for your help.

Joel

Front, right?

1) Jack the car fairly high under the crossmember.
2) Place jackstands under crossmember or rubber lift points behind wheels, and remove jack.
3) Drop the control arm as low as possible, and seat the top of the spring in its mount.
4) Compress the spring just enough to get it positioned in the groove on the arm. I have heard this can be done without compressing the spring at all, but I have not tried this personally. I used the cheap 'bolt type' compressors that are available from many places ($9.99), but the one you rented might work. If you do use the 'bolt type', you may be able to compress just the inside of the spring so that it bends towards the angle of the extended arm. This worked for me.
5) Once bottom of spring is seated, jack under control arm as close to balljoint as possible (this is important, since the weight of the car will not compress spring enough unless you are far enough out on the arm [leverage]).
Keep jacking until the weight of the car comes of the jack stand on that side, then you can install strut, etc....

Be careful. That spring has a tremendous amount of potential energy.
Hope that helps.

Save yourself from potential death, and either pay someone to do it (under $100) who has the correct spring compressor, or rent the correct one if it can be located.

Do a search on this site for spring compressors.

Don't mess a round with Mercedes springs.

:-( neil

IMHO this procedure is safe so long as you are careful. I have now done 6 control arm R&Rs this year without special tools or flying springs.

The key to safety and success here, as in much of life, are applying common sense, and a deep respect for the laws of physics.

Thanks
 

Hi guys,

Well I got the spring back in this morning. CSNOW I ended up using pretty much a variation on your suggestion.

Car on jack stands, used bolt type spring compresors, one on each side. Well kind of on each side, because of the way the spring seats I had to have the clamps at about 160 dgrees rather than straight accross from each other. Compressed spring just enough to get top in place and bottom hooked into control arm. You can not start without compressing some.

Used jack to push control arm up and then released and removed compressors. Getting ball joint back into spindle was another chore, but by prying gap open a little more was able to get back together.

Thanks for the help and follow-up, hope this helps others. (I realize there are allready quite a few posts on this subject.)

Joel

That's great news, Joel.
I'm glad it worked out for you.

I hate to see folks use expensive specialized tools when there is a workaround.

Credible sources say this can be done without any sort of spring compressor, but I just can't figure a way to get the bottom of the spring seated without at least some compression.

Perhaps that works if you are using shorter sport springs.
Bolt-type compressors are so cheap, that I'm not sure I care.

you are correct
 

Hi CSNOW,

You are correct, there is no way, at least with my car to get the spring in without a compresor. With the control arm bolted in and pushed all the way down I still needed at least an inch and half compression.

Now, contradicting what I just wrote. You could by placing a jack under the control arm, jack up the control arm, line up bolt holes, bolt in control arm etc.

Actually, that's how I got the spring out. I undid control arm, with ball joint still attached to strut and guided down with my jack, big floor jack. Of course, my jack slipped and my brother and I were almost killed when the spring per-twanged.

I can't imagine puting it together that way. Those springs are incredibly dangerous.

I was sure glad to get that job done.

It would be great if the local members of this forum could arrange a meeting, maybe a get together in Southern NH, Northern MA. Were we could talk shop in person and I could thank you guys. The help provided in this forum is invaluable.

Thanks,
Joel

famous last words "hey guy's these $9.95 spring compressors made in China work great on my Merce!!!!!*********".......
William Rogers......

Not sure what your point is
 

Hi William,

I can infer from the tone of your post you are somehow uncomfortable with my tool selection.

Just like you, and I am sure most others on this site, I work hard for my money and make every effort to spend it wisely. I have no problem (maybe a little) spending money when I perceive I am getting value for the dollars spent.

Not sure why I would choose to spend money when I can make do with a free rental tool.

Furthermore, I would gladly purchase my parts and tools for that matter straight from the dealer if I got anywhere near the customer service and professional courtesy I get, for example, here on this forum. I have spent time and effort going to the two dealerships in my area (20 mile drive to each) only to receive a blank stare from the guy at the counter, that is, when he finds it convienient to acknowledge my presence. And when I did order parts it took three trips back and forth before I got the correct part.

I am in the professional services industry (accountant), clients pay huge money for my time ($150-$300 per hour) (of course I get paid a tiny franction of that, hence doing things as economically as possible). I treat my clients with TLC and respect and if I can find anyway for them to get something done more economically or efficiently I do, including ways to decrease my time (fees), and travel expenses. That's the only sure-fire way to ensure a continuing mutually beneficial relationship.

I can see from your number of posts that you are a seasoned Merc. guy, probably a better mechanic than me and you've probably offered a lot of valuable advice. I appreciate, more than you know the advice people like your self have given out helping newbies like me, thanks.

Moderator, sorry if this note is off of the intended path for this forum.

Joel

Joel,

I'm in the process of doing the same procedure on my 190E. (I have it apart now, and will reassemble tonight.) I removed my springs the opposite of how you did yours. With the car up on jack stands, I loosened the ball joint while supporting the control arm with a floor jack under the ball joint -- then carefully lowered the jack. I added a safety measure though -- before I started, I chained the bottom of the spring to the control arm. It turns out the chain was not necessary, but I still plan to use it on the install (just for safety)

Can you ellaborate on the problems you encountered while re-installing. (I want to get an idea for what I'm up against tonight)

BTW, I would be interested in attending a New England get-together of forum members. (I'm in Portland, ME)

Jeff Pierce

Hi Jeff
 

You definately approached it better than I initially did.

My probelm was getting the spring to sit into the control arm. My car 300E, 124 did not allow me to set the spring into the control arm even with the control arm unattached to the ball joint and pushed all the way down. With the spring seated in the top I needed to compress the spring about 2 inches in order to get it to sit into the control arm. Then I could start to jack up the control arm and then insert the ball joint into the spindle.

Problems with reasembly:
1) Getting a spring compressor to fit the spring, the free rental I used initially, the type that fits in the middle of the spring did not fit through the hole in the control arm.
2) The two piece compresors, one on each side needed to be lined up a certain way so they would not hit the top mounting (cup) that the spring seats into. I ended up having the compressors at 120 degrees rather than 180 degrees opposite eachother.
3) Getting the ball joint back into the spindle. Took a lot of jigling and wiggling, finally used my big screw driver to spread apart the opening where ball joint fits into, actually left screw driver wedged in as I fitted ball joint. Beware, another guy (very helpfull) noted that if you spread the joint too much you'll have trouble getting the bolt back in. And don't forget to line up the notch on the ball joint so that you can fit the bolt back in.

That should about do it. Don't forget to torque everything up.

Good luck,
Joel

I'll work to figure out a date and place for a get together and post and see what happens.

I should add that if you place the bolt-type compressors on the spring before disassembly, and while the weight of the car is still compressing the spring, the control arm will not get to as steep an angle before the spring can be removed.

If you leave the removed spring compressed while you do your repairs, reassembly is a snap.

My instructions for Joel were written as such because he already had an extended spring that was off the car. The whole process is much easier if the springs are held in a compressed state throughout.

Coil spring compressor
 

The bolt type coil spring compressor may work on the REAR springs, if you want to go that route.
Do NOT use this type of compressor on the front coil springs.
There is MUCh more "spring"in the front springs. The proper tool ,that is specified in the workshop manual, costs around
$900. It can be rented from many sources however.
I cannot overstate the danger in doing this job with the wrong tool. We all work hard for our money, but to place your life in danger to save a few bucks is false economy.

Bob

Blitzen Bob What is the correct spring compressor for this application? The internal one?

Internal one
 

Hi,

Yup, the internal one. It's pictured in the CD manual.

And as Bob states, he's definately correct regarding the proper tool.

Must admitt, I did not take the time to try to find a place that would rent the mercedes internal tool, and like usuall, I had so little time to get the work done I made do with what I could find.

But, considering the compression on that spring, correct tool is advisable.

In a perfect world I would have liked to use the official tool. Not sure (I think I know the answer, profit margin / or, discourage do it yourselfers) why benz tools are so crazy expensive.

I did use a piece of threaded stock placed down the middle of top mounting, spring, and control arm in-case the spring let go.

Scary proposition, I hate springs,
Joel

Most DIY projects do not have the potential to have such deadly consequences. Suspension repairs are a different story however.
Do NOT attempt DIY suspension work and spring removal without a very heavy duty spring compressor. I don't care if someone says they,ve removed 100 pairs of springs using the bolt or hook type compressor discussed here, the 101st pair may be the one with your name on it. Treat spring removal on any car as a loaded weapon that has a hair trigger. Now treat Mercedes front springs with ten times that respect.

The following is an excerpt that a friend of mine, a MB tech for 30 years, wrote for another list

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Because I am so enamoured with establishing perspective,
read the following and really think about it.

When I first came to town and started working as shop
foreman of a dealership I found a little package in the tool
room that made me a little nervous. Seems one of the
guys had compressed a front spring from a 450SE and
had forgotten to use ample anti-seize on the threads of
the compressor before he started. Most of us just use
air tools to run the compressor down, which he did also.
He didn't notice that the air wrench was no longer turning.
The nut that winds down the screw thread had galled onto
the screw thread and the spring was in full compression.

This means, there was no way to unwind the spring. It was
stuck tight as a toad. This compressed bomb was laying
on the floor in the tool room. I talked with the owner of the
dealership and he OK'd my getting rid of it anyway possible.
This was just too serious a problem to handle unofficially. I
called the Bomb Squad. They came down and looked
at the problem item. So, here are guys who were used to
blowing up shrapnel filled pipe bombs and this is what they
said.

They had no means of disposing of this compressed spring.
They said if they blew it up, they thought there would be
shrapnel for miles around. They suggested we bury it in
a manner that would never allow it to be dug up. About a year
after I left the dealership, they built a new building and that
spring and compressor are buried deeply in the foundation
of that building. Sorta the Jimmy Hoffa of the MB special
tool world. It was the only way to get rid of it.

Yes, we do springs in a matter of fact way, every day. We
just hook up the compressor's and take them out. It's part
of the occupational risk. We get paid to do it. Do you think
we like to R&R spings....No way. It is the most dangerous
part of being a mechanic. I don't know about those flimsy
little springs on American cars, but I can tell you that the
springs on a Benz are the stoutest coils of spring steel
you will ever see and they are the longest you will ever
see which means that when they are compressed to coil
bind to remove them, the energy is up into the kilotons..
It is a small mushroom cloud waiting to happen.

Treat coiled springs as if they were hot nitroglycerin and you
will survive just fine..

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thanks for letting me vent. This is a serious subject for me.

Blitzen Bob

im 19, i have had a spring blow up right infront of me. It was on the strut type honda accord strut/spring deal. I have the correct spring compressors for that. They spun around and exploded infront of me because they spun around. You have to be so careful with springs. I am looking for a mercedes spring compressor because I am going to lower like four cars here pretty soon. I think it is worth the safety, but 1400 for a kid, is kind of a lot. I think that I would pay 4-5 and charge my friends to use it to recover the tool costs. If anyone wants to sell their authentic mercedes compressor let me know.

You have no idea how strong those mercedes coils are. Think about it, the car weights at least 4000 lbs, that means each spring has to hold up 1000 lbs unsprung, so those springs can probably handle shocks of 2000 lbs or more, so I wouldnt mess with them. Be careful with springs and shocks, they are dangerous. They are under a lot of pressure caused by their loads. I have had a shock crush my hand in a friends honda...It really hurts. If mercedes recommends a special tool and you dont have the money for it, maybe yo ushould take it to a place that specializes in mercedes that can fix it or make them yourself. I have made like ten mercedes tools already because I have access to a machine shop, and a car lift, but those of you that dont...be careful.

If that spring is still around, I would cement the spring and the tool. Then throw it away.

Amen Bob, strong words save lives with 8000+ members you might have just saved a life or a terrible injury. I have been working on cars for fourty years and have done many thinks not in the books to get the job done,a few things I have learned are you can not over support a car that you are working under,to go back and double check all bolts or nuts that have anything to do with brakes or suppension(steering)to be real carefull with a torch or welder (take that gas tank out if you got to weld or cut near it I know it's a big hassel)and don't mess with Mercedes Benz springs unless you have the right tool and then don't do it.........
William Rogers...
74 240 D
81 SD
86 Euro 500SE
81 2wd K5 Blazer 454 powered frame up project

You guys are right
 

As I mentioned earlier on, as a Mercedes novice I did not approach this project with the right frame of mind. Being 35 years old (Monday was my birthday, which I almost missed when I took the spring out without a compressor) and having worked on many cars and other mechanical things (raced motocross for 6 years) I have never run into something as directly potentially deadly as a Mercedes coil spring.

These things should come with warning labels.

Bottom line, I would never fudge a project like this again!! As stated time and again in this thread, this is no place to fudge on tools.

I take back everything I said about using the free rental tool.

Not too proud to walk away with my tail between my legs. I got lucky.

Would definately get my hands on the correct tool next time.

It's Friday, just got to get through today and then two blissfull days as a gararge trole. And tomorrow is car auction day, like being a kid in a candy store.

Joel

I am glad you have come to that realization. I am glad that you werent hurt. I was hurt, but not forever, which I am thankful for that. Currently I am looking for the right one. I just wonder why the mercedes one is so expensive. Maybe they dont want DIY people do work on something so powerful, because those springs are extremely dangerous

Omegabenz
 

I noticed in your post you are into lowering cars.

Any suggestions on where I can find a set of springs to lower my car, 1992 300e? I am thinking about lowering and leveling the car, only slightly, maybe and inch or so.

How much would a set of 4 typically run?

thanks,
Joel

Eibach springs are about 250 or so for a set of four.

Both of my brothers have W124s, so we are going to lower those, then buy the pads to get the ride where we want it. I could look into getting a bulk discount if you want. Where are you located, you can email me?
Amcleod11@yahoo.com

Do a GOOGLE search for Mercedes spring compressor made by Klann.

A month ago I found a source for the correct plate/type compressor for approx. $800.

Note- Klann makes a "universal compressor" but doesn't recommend it for Mercedes springs.

http://www.samstagsales.com/klann.htm

Here's the links:
http://www.themotoringshop.com/products/springsafetydevice.htm

http://www.southernscope.com/Tools%20for%20Changing%20Springs%20and%20Shock%20Absorbers.htm

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

Its 265 for a set of four eibach springs with tax and all here in AZ.

I checked it out, thanks neil. I found it cheapest for 695 at....
http://www.baumtools.com/english/specialtools.cfm?mk=MERCEDES

Item # 924-0231 it looks the same case, etc. I think its the one.

level
 

Hi Omegabenz,

Will the springs level my car? How much of a reduction in ride height would I see. I am looking for only a subtle reduction in ride height, moreover I am looking to level the ride out. Heard that will improve handling.

thanks,
Joel

Joel,

First off, thanks for the insight into re-installing my front suspension. Everything's back together, and back on the road.

As far as leveling your car: if you're not after the "lowered" look, you might want to consider getting different size (height) spring pads. I know on my car ('92 190E) you can make slight ride-height adjustments this way. (its my understanding that the purpose for the different height pads is to compensate for added or reduced weight due to optional equipment that some cars have, and others don't.)

Either way though, you're gonna have to take the springs off again. I assume you'll be renting the tool this time???

Jeff Pierce

Actually, not take the springs off .... but leave in car and compress them so the tops that have the spring collars are fully exposed.

Even with a spring compressor I don't use my hand to get a hold of the collars.

J

Spring pads?
 

Hi,

Not sure what is meant by spring pads? I don't see anything like that on my car. All I have is spring mounts, and rubber collar that threads onto top of spring. Does not seem like a pad though and is not very think at all.

thanks,
Joel

Spring pads
 

Joel,

Yes, the rubber collar (it's like a cup on the top of the spring). I've always heard them referred to as "spring pads", but Fastlane on this site calls them "spring shims". In any event, they come in 8mm, 13mm, 18mm, and 23mm sizes for the front.
So the difference between the largest and smallest is only 15mm (about 5/8"). The variable are 1) What size are your current shims/pads? 2) Would the subtle change provided by shims/pads be sufficient for what you're trying to do? 3) Which way are you trying to go with the front? (up or down)

Jeff Pierce

springs
 

HI Jeff,

My thoughts are to go maybe 1/2 inch or so down in the front and 1 to 1-1/2 inch down in the back to bring the car slightly lower and level.

I've read in the past the leveling the car can improve handling.

I am not looking for a radical shift but a subtle shift, partly for appearance.

Thanks,
Joel

I am assuming the shims are in the back too? I've only done work on my front springs.

I'm not sure about shims for the back (I haven't done rear suspension work on this car either). But Fastlane does not list shims for the rear. Maybe someone else can answer that question. Or call Phil (the 888# at the top of this site). I've dealt with him, and he is fantastic. He really know his stuff.

But even if there are shims for the back, I doubt there's a 1-1.5 inch range in defference between largest and smallest. After all, the range for the front is only 5/8".

Jeff Pierce

The spring pads / rubber collars come in four thicknesses for the front and three for the rear. You can identify your car's pad thickness by looking very carefully around the edges. You will see a series of little "bumps". The bumps or numbs correspond to the thickness of the pad.

I my opinion a properly setup car will have a slightly higher rear than front. This is because the front ride height doesn't change but the rear does. You drive the car fully unloaded and all the way to fully loaded: 5 passengers and a trunk full of luggage.

I have seen measurements elsewhere on this site using the rubber jack points under the car, right behind the from wheels and just ahead of the rear wheels of abut 7.5".

Hope this helps.

compressing springs
 

Sounds like I'm lucky to be alive. I just r/r the front spring on a '79 300TD. I released the upper ball joint and lowered the bottom arm till it looked like the spring should fall out, I had to poke it out with a tire iron. I rented a $60 tool that fit inside the spring , it had 4 hooks on it. it got "captured" and I later had to disassemble it to remove. I'm guessing it had 500 pounds or so of pressure to get it squeezed 2". It took 9 hours for the whole job. I hate this kind of work, but have been doing it 4 decades, and so feel a little in control. It's scary. Beginners, DONT do it. Lorenzo in Montana.

Ride height
 

I'll measure the ride height and see what I come up with.

Thanks,
Joel

Ride Height
 

haasman,

Would you happen to know the ride height for a 190E? (or where I can get the info)

Thanks,

Jeff Pierce

Jeff,

I don't have any ride height info on the 190E. I will look around.

If you find it, please forward.


Jeff