how to align front wheels
 

I have a 1979 300 TD , I think it previously hit a curb or something. left front spindle was probably bent, now I have replaced it, but dont have an alignment info. book. Anyone have a brief fix? Lorenzo in Montana...

You start with checking toe-in. This is my shower curtain rod method:

On your 300TD the toe-in is about 3/32" to 5/32". Simply put a shower curtain rod between the tires at the front, and mark a line where rods insert into each other. Carefully roll the tires to the rear and mark the rod again. Remove the rod and measure the distance between the marks. This is toe-in, assuming there was toe-in to begin with. Adjustment is done by turning the tie rods in equal turns. It helps to have someone watching the tires to make sure the tires are going in the correct direction.

Since your steering wheel maybe off-center, you will have to "move" wheels to the correct position so the streering wheel is centered.

There is also caster and camber to check as well, if you'll willing to get a caster/camber gauge.

just rebuilt the front end on my 81 SD taking it to shop tomorrow for four wheel alignment,did similar trick to get it driveable but to protect expensive tires and have it handle well alignment at a good shop familar with MB's is a small price to pay $54.00 in Florence Oregon......
William Rogers........

I also used a similar trick after fixing the damaged caused by a tow truck driver (used "J" hooks on the tie rods rather than "D" hooks to the frame).

I tightly clamped two pieces of straight wood to both wheels, then adjusted at the tie rods until the front of the tires were approx 1/8" closer together than the rear. Car tracks straight and true.

That'll get you to an alignment shop.

wheel alingment
 

Thanks for the info--- it sounds like an easy fix. The eccentric for the camber is next. I 'll try a 1 degree off the vertical, thats what some american pickups are. 'course that will affect the toe-in. Lorenzo.

On the 300TD, the camber is 0 degrees, +10', -20'. A little positive camber is good.

You need to take greese cap off of the end of spindle. The spindle has something stuck in the hole. You have to pull that piece of metal out and clean the spindle end. Be sure to take the small "star hub cap" off the rim before you put the tire back on and set the car down.

The tool I use is the camber gauge sold at Habor Freight. I calibrate the tool on a perfectly vertically square wall, and lock the tool at zero. It isn't really the best tool for doing this job, but at $9.99, I can put up with it. Habor Freight does not recommend using its tool for setting camber, but can be done. An Intercomp Digital Caster/Camber gauge would be ideal to work with, but it costs $300. They say it is the same one used by NASCAR to align their front ends. Just stick the tool on spindle and adjust the ecentric bolt.

Keep in mind that adjusting the camber also affects the caster.

Is it possible to just measure the tie rod ends from center to center to get an accurate or close alignment?
I just bought all new rods and I'm going to replace them but my rods on the car now are outta whack so I know they will not be very accurate

Thanks,

Jeff

The curtain rod method in the second post is not bad, but you should not measure against the tires, measure against the wheels. The tires will not be in the exact same position all around. To compensate for this, I raise the wheel so it can be spun, visegrip a nail to a jackstand and put the nail to the center of the tread, then turn the tire a full turn to scribe a line, then do the same on the other front wheel. Then lower the car and roll it at least one full turn of the wheel to allow it to find it's correct camber position after being raised. Then measure between lines on the front and measure between lines on the back of the tire. Then adjust for them to be exactly equal. Radial tires use zero toe.

To make this a one person job, I took a piece of an old heavy steel tape measure and drilled the smallest hole I could make in one end. I put this in place with a thumbtack, then go to the other side and read the measurement. Do the same in the rear and equalize the measurements.

BTW, always check the wheel bearings for tightness prior to setting toe.

Good luck,

I thought Mercedes required a special tool to spread the front wheels to do a proper alignment.

I've owned MB for nearly 20 years. On our first one, it was delivered with the wheels out of alignment. I took it to a private alignment shop recommended by the dealer (MB guy was on vacation). That alignment didn't last. Had it done again at a MB dealer and it's lasted for 17 years. My '91 300E has been perfect since I bought it new.

j shepardson,

If you measure tie rod ends center to center before changing the tie rods and restore the same distance with the new tie rods, you should get a pretty accurate alignment.

Bud,

I have heard of this spreader bar too. An alignment shop told me that they could not align a Mercedes because they did not have the spreader bar. I have gotten satisfactory alignment without it.

Spreader bar!?!?

This sounds like BS. If you have a way to measure and a way to adjust, what else can you need? There are some unit body cars that must be basically "bent" into position, but an MB is not one of them. There are adjustments for caster, camber and toe. You must be thinking of a Honda, they only have adjustment for toe, everything else is put in place with a porta-power.

My $0.02,

Larry,

I agree. I can not understand why someone would use a spreader bar. But the tool is made by Beissbarth (#860 000 883) with MB part number 900 589 01 27 00.

The spreader bar is a *required* part of a proper MB alignment.

It is not used to *adjust* anything, it is used to "pre-load" the wheels to simulate the thrust on the wheels and suspension during driving, and to remove any of the play that would be present in any of the suspension components that would cause a "standard" alignment to give false readings. Think about this play: most (all?) MBs' steering linkage is the back wall of a parallelogram that is laid over the front tires. The spreader bar is the front wall of the parallelogram.

Any shop that understands MBs and their alignment will either have this tool or will know to simulate its effect by manual "pre-loading" of the front of the wheels while simultaneously checking toe. If they are not doing this or are unaware of the need for the spreader bar, well . . .

Richard Easley
Waco, Texas

j shepardson,

What do you mean by "out of whack"? That the left and right are not uniform, or that your current allignment is not correct?

Jeff Pierce

Yes, my front end is pretty far out of alignment steering wheel and car always turns to the right.
The right wheel aligns with the steering wheel but the left is not aligned with the steering wheel kind like left wheel is facing 12:00 then the right is at about 1:00-1:30 and the sterring wheel right side of the horn pad is at about 4:00-4:30 when driving straight.

The right tire constantly gets worn so I'm not sure which tie rod is out of alignment if not both

Guess thats why I was wondering if there was a measurment from center to center of the left and right inner and outer tie rod ends so when I replace them they will be close to what I need.

About This Spreader Bar...
 

I need to have my car aligned today due to the replacement of some suspension components yesterday (LH control rod bushing and RH caster adjuster) and a weekend trip to MA. Out of habit with other cars and convenience, I've made an appointment at the local NTB for after work.

Three questions:
1. Does anyone have experience with their alignments on M-B and are they likely to have this spreader?
2. If they don't, is how can they go about mimicking the spreader to get the proper measurements?
3. If I can't get them to do either one or two, will they at least be able to get things close enough to protect the tires for 500+ miles so that I can get things done "correctly" next week or would I be better off just waiting to get it done "correctly"?

Thanks in advance.
jlc

I don't think it's possible to have a "default" or factory length for tie rods. It seems like there are too many variables elsewhere in the suspension/steering systems.

I would just take the old ones off without adjusting them. Then set them back to back on your bench so you can adjust the new ones to the same length. Then install the new ones, and make an appointment at your prefered shop. I think the earlier suggestions for allignment are just to get you close enough to make the car drivable so you can get it alligned by a professional.

jp

Richard Easley

thank you for walking into the "Spreader Bar and Alignment" topic hell.

I had both of the 300 series (124's) aligned at the local independent "high-quality" tire store. Both cars suffered from poor alignments. both times I requested the use of a spreader bar and was basically laughed out of the place. "We've got this high-tech &$&$^ machine ....". Finally I took both cars to the local MBZ dealership, requested the use of the spreader bar to which they replied "we always use it on older cars" and .... the alignments were GREAT.

Richard

I think you are exactly right. Even further, if a consumer isn't completely educated on whatever product they are trying to repair, improve or even work with, they are basically screwed, with a few exceptions.

I honestly went to the "alignment shop" five times. Bad tire wear, always pulling.

I finally had them buy me new tires and refund my money for the alignment! I continue to use them for tires, which they are great at, but not for alignments.

It drove me crazy .... "Weeelll we haven't seen one of them spreeederr baarrrs in ....How long Jeb?" BS!

OK, I've vented.

Jeff

Interesting post, hassman --

I think that what you experienced at both of the alignment shops was a defense mechanism. After all, if one doesn't have a clue about something, the easiest path to take is to ridicule it, right?

I mean, they are supposed to be the experts, so what can a customer possibly know that they wouldn't already know? If they would take half a second to think logically about the purpose of the spreader bar, then it should make perfect sense.

Richard Easley
Waco, Texas

Why fool around and waste money on alignments that are done incorrectly, on pre-mature tire wear, on lost time and money? Why not go to someone who is an expert on MB alignment and get the job done correctly the first time?

I was told that once a Mercedes was aligned correctly, it stayed that way. That's been my experience and I believe it.

Bud

Well I think my car survived alignment and balencing at NTB last night. It definately tracks well and what vibrations remained after the replacement of the suspension parts are all but gone now. However I watched the entire process and not only did they not use a spreader bar but they didn't do anything to the rear wheels which I thought were also adjustable. They did give me a printout of the various settings before and after and the rear was in fine shape to begin with.

Not being very used to M-B yet, I can't say that I feel anything in the way the car handles that would lead me to believe that more aligning needs to be done so all that remains is to watch for poor tire wear.

For the future, though, is anyone aware of any shops other than the local dealer who will do the alignment "correctly"?

jlc

It's amazing IMHO how much MYSTERY surrounds alignment!

Every MB car I've seen has adjustments for every angle and dimension. You absolutely do not need to bend anything unless there has been crash damage!

Tire balancing requires an IQ above mental retardation, but the alignment guy requires much more and needs to be experienced and properly trained. There is rarely anyone at the tire store that can and will do a good job.

Someone who knows what they're doing, can do a better job with a piece of string and a stick, than many of the alignment "experts" at the tire stores can accomplish with $50,000 worth of equipment.

Some time ago, I read a post by Steve Brotherton that outlined his approach to an alignment which included a test drive BEFORE putting the car on his alignment rack. When was the last time you had an alignment guy do this? Most likely never.

I have driven well over a million miles in various cars, most of those miles in an MB and I have NEVER had to go to an alignment shop. There have been a few times when I got into a situation where I was wearing tires, but it was because there was something wrong, like an idler arm, or I had my head where the sun doesn't shine and forgot to check wheel bearing tightness before using my "scribed line and tape measure" method. This is the method that has taken my 240D 533,000 miles without EVER finding itself on an alignment machine.

I truly believe that if the truth were known, you would find a high percentage of alignment jobs done, particularly in the tire stores, are slam bam jobs, where they just set the toe and charge the $50 or more. I think that Steve Brothertons savvy and attention to detail is the exception rather than the rule.

My suggestion? Either learn how to do it properly yourself, or seek out someone like Steve that knows what they're doing. When you find that shop, don't expect them to have the fanciest alignment pit in the state. They may very well have that, but just because they do have an expensive machine does not, in anyway, indicate that they know or care about what they are doing.

I fully expect that if you find someone like Steve and he is somehow without his alignment machine, he will be capable of doing a better job with a stick and a piece of hay twine than your local tire store can do with their $50,000 alignment pit.

Last point, the most brilliant front end alignment expert in the world cannot perform magic. If you have worn parts and you have your alignment set, you are washing your feet and then putting on dirty socks.

My $0.02,

Excellent points Larry. The best allignment I've found in my area is at a spring and suspension place (Palmer Spring for anyone who lives in Southern Maine). These guys have been in business for 150 years! (started out making springs for horse-drawn wagons... literally) They work on suspension and steering systems for *anything*! When I bring my car there, the vehicle in the next bay might be a tandem-axle Kenworth dumptruck. They even make their own leaf springs from raw steel stock. The guy who does my cars is in his 50s and really knows his stuff -- plus he has really good equipment. (unbeatable combination)
I get my tires at the tire place, then drive my car to Palmers for the allignment.

Jeff Pierce

hmm well I've just changed all my tie rods now the cambor is way off anyone know how that could happen so instead of my wheel being straight up and down | the wheel now looks like this \
how can this be adjusted, for the car is barely drivable now?
I couldn't find any thing else to adjust or to even place a wrench other than the top of the ball joint.


Jeff

Camber gauges, spreader bars, curtain rods , etc..

Naturally, a good tech and equipment to do it right, but for the DIY guy, here are a few things to add to this post...[as I know them, anyway]

The given Toe measurement specs are the measurement from the Wheel edge, not the tire [ on zero toe, this makes no difference, but on anything else , it does -- ie, the farther you get from the wheel center , the larger this measurement , be it +/-, will become]
Toe measure is actually supposed to be equally split on each side of the chassis longtitude center line. This means on a 1/8 toe -in spec., each wheel rim should be equally distant from the centerline of the car with the front measurement
being 1/16" less than the rear. That gives a total of 1/8 when each side is totaled up. The practical way of measurement for the DIYer, of course, is to measure the total [wheel to wheel/front to back comparison]
In order for correct toe measurements [ along with it being the last spec to be adjusted], the wheel distances measurement should be made
at the the horizontal center-line of each wheel. [front/back] This simply means that the measurement point on the wheel edge should be at axle centerline height from the ground. Reasoning here is that
the camber angle does not demensionally effect this point.
One of the problems with the curtain rod , tape measure , etc.
measuring tecnique is that one is usually below this point due to oil pans , tie rods belly pans, etc. not allowing one to get up to axle height with the tape[ or what ever one uses]
An easy tool for DIYer on this one is to make an outside caliper
[I can post a real easy to make/use one , if anyone is interested..] that allows this point to be measured from outside the wheel edge, both front and back with no obstructions.
Keep in mind that these are just simple home made measuring devices and there accuracy is dependent on the maker...

On the camber measure, here is another jig tool that, even though simple , can be fairly accurate with the maker paying attention to the Indexing of the degree marks.
This one is simply a plumb bob string [ no snickering] fixture that is held against the rim edge in the verticle position with a bob for index comparison. The bob stand-off distance from the rim is to allow clearence for the wheel bearing cap, as that usually sticks out a little from the rim...
The indexing measurement spacing differs with wheel diameter, so that has to be fiqured by the maker accordingly..
The trick using this tool is , of course, that the car be on a level surface..
When using these jigs , it is important to roll the car back and forth to let the suspension settle- in to the normal driven position.
As both tools can measure without any jacking/moving of the car , this adds to the ability to get close to spec..

ftp://members.aol.com/ajdalton7/camb.jpg

I just had both tie-rods replaced on my 190D by the local farm equipment mechanic (mercedes trained in Switzerland). He set the toe-in with a piece of bailer twine wrapped around all four wheels, measured the distance at the front of the tire (4mm each at the front) and ..... perfect tracking, centered steering wheel, etc. ;) Way high tech. Gotta love it.

j shepardson,

On my car ('92 190E) the camber is adjusted at the control arm. The bolts on which the control arm pivots have eccentric (not sure of the spelling) washers that position the control arm laterally in relation to the car.

However, I don't think it's possible for tie rod adjustment/replacement to affect camber.

Jeff Pierce

I wrote an article for "Import Car" earlier this year on MB alignment issues. Half way through writing it the spreader bar issue came up on this forum. It bothered me terribly as I had known of it but never used it over the thirty years I have aligned cars (most of them MBs). I purchased the spreader bar just before the article went to print and from the few measurements made for the article and from many since, I get around 1mm toe change with it. This is fairly insignificant to one who is using tire wear as a significant input to setting specs.

For anyone interested the article can be viewed here: http://www.continentalimports.com/ser_ic4232.html

Arthur
 

Hi Arthur,

I just replaced some front end components and am planning a visit to the allignment shop. I was hoping you would see this post and offer me the instructions on making the measurement device for doing an allignment. I am anxious to try and then compare with the results from the shop.

As you mentioned getting measurements between the front and back of the front wheels is not possible becuase I don't have a clear shot. Stuff under the car gets in the way.

Thanks,
Joel

I am also curious as to how I would get a precise measurement, for example if I use a tape measure I could not precisely line up to wheel. Would have to bend measure like when framing and get probably at least and 1/8 of inch off.

Joel,

Sorry for the delay,
I don't recieve email notice of any post I am in anymore and we have not been able to find the fault yet..
Anyone else having this prob ?

Anyway, that is a good question and the answer is:

A 2x4, some plywood triangles, some drywall screws..

What you can do [ and mind you this is a crude DIYer device, but can be accurate if you pay attention to doing a good, solid construction job] is assemble this as one piece on a flat floor.

You are basically making a large measuring caliper.
The 2x4 lays in front of the car and it has two arms [ about 3 footers] coming off at Rt angles , a little wider than the outside wheel width. Like a big square "C" .
I make the 2x4 a couple of feet longer than where the arms come off and put some 1/4 plywood triangles on the outside as gussets [ with the screws] . This keeps the upright arms solid
and being on the outside , keeps the area inside the arms clear.
Now you put a small piece of plywood [ 3-4 " triangle with one point cut off] at the open end of one arm , coming back toward the center of the rig. On the opposite arm end, you just use a straight nail sticking into the end of the arm.

So, now you mark each wheel at the rim edge at axle height from
the ground , [ horizontal line through the rim center-line ] ,front and back..[ this is on the outside of the wheel, as you are taking measurement from outside , rather than inside]
Lay the 2x4 on the ground across the front of the tires. Lift the
arm with the little piece of plywood pointer and set it on the rim at the axle height mark. Now go to the other side and that arm will be lined up with that mark, but will be a couple of inches away. Put a short, 6" ruler on the rim mark and see how far away the nail pointer is , This is you measurement for the front.
Now simply push the 2x4 back about 15" and do the same for the rear marks. This is the rear measurement . The difference of these two numbers is toe +/-. For zero toe , same measurement.
Adjust the tierods according to what specs you are looking for.
The advantage of this outside caliper measuring is that nothing is in your way , so you are more apt to get better measurements
then under the car. It also allows the measurement to be gotten from the wheels at axle heigth- which can't be done with inside measure...

I ftp://members.aol.com/ajdalton7/toe.jpg

** note: the 1-1/2" dimension on drawing should read 3-1/2 inch

Anyone crazy as me and wants to make one , print this jpg out as I can only leave it for a few days [ no space] . I advise using the 2x4 flat sided to take advantage of the strength .. I also
put another brace/prop arm at the end of one of the arms with a pivot pin/screw that allows the tool to stand on its own after the pointer is placed on the rim mark [ kinda like a variable A frame support ], so one guy can use the tool without having it fall off the marks.
If you have several cars, it is best to make the opening a little larger than you widest track width you have .. A couple of inches wider allows getting the tool past the bulge of the tires easily..
Although the tool is large , it is flat and hangs well on a wall ..

I have made the same with rigid tubing and some slide fixture that works very well...

Too much good information to allow this to fade away.
 

Too much good information to allow this to fade away.



Have a great day.