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  #16  
Old 09-08-2002, 10:27 PM
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The ratings in question at the Tirerack are USER ratings, not salesmen. Tried Michelin vs. Bridgestones on the same car for a real world test, as many people here have noted?

Nonetheless, in regard to H rated tires, I really have a hard time to pay $116 for tires with dangerous wet performance (Michelin MXV4) when I can pay $74 for Bridgestone RE950 tires with amazing rain and track performance. And I don't sell tires, just trying to share great vs. bad experiences I've had.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2002, 09:13 AM
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My experience comes from fixing peoples problems. Michelins fix people's problems. I never use M&S tires, but I live in Florida and travel no mountain roads. Quiet is of most importance.

The deal with Michelins over Bridgestones or Yokahamas or Dunlops is not how they handle now. Its how they handle in 10, 20, 30, 40k from now. Talking tire economics on the most expensive of machinery is hard for me to understand. My experience isn't just the tires I've driven personally, it comes from thousands of alignment experiences. I am very observant!

I personally will throw away any tire that alters performance or noise. Ninety percent of the driving public wish me as a technician to work it out with alignment (for those drifting conditions), balancing (to solve those roundness irregularities caused by the lesser tire's inability to take a pounding), and through rotation to find two that can not sound like an ATV grinding down the road. Michelins solve problems and MBs amplify the problems with their sensitive handling character.

Anything handles alright on a Chevy.
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2002, 09:56 AM
LarryBible
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Steve,

This scenario sort of reminds me of the false economy involved with converting an R12 a/c system to 134.

I sheepishly admit that I do economize on tires by using Continentals while at the same time I hardily agree that Michelins will fix tire complaints. Hopefully times will get better and money will not be so tight at the next tire time. The last tire time came all at once for every car on the place it seemed.

In the mid 90's I was test driving a low mileage, used '92 300D. The tires were the equipment Michelins and worn completely out. They were roaring and I commented to the sales guy about them. He said, "oh, you just fix that by getting rid of the Michelins." I told him that I usually fix that by PUTTING ON new Michelins.

Sharing your experience is always greatly appreciated.

Have a great day,
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2002, 11:03 AM
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It's interesting to note that Mercedes Benz (and other luxury automakers) have gone to Continental tires as OE on some of their new models. I suppose you can view this two ways ... that this is an endorsement of Continentals as being solid, quality tires, equal to or greater than Michelins of which they replaced on that particular model. Or, that MB (and others) are cutting costs hoping that the Contis hold up for at least the first 20k miles or so, which is almost a certainty with a brand new car in perfect alignment.

If you had to pick a "second best" brand of tire behind Michelins, which brand would that be Steve?
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2002, 11:30 AM
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Well, I do respect Steve's opinion a lot, BUT. I have used Michelin exclusively for 25+ years. I didn't want to run Michelins on my 1996 Jetta, due to cost. I was having such a bad experience with the Continental CH95s on the car that I asked a recommedation from Luke at the Tirerack. He recommeded Bridgestone Turanza Revo H. What a transformation; they now have about 30K on them and they have been consistently quiet, round, and have stayed in balance. Then, my son needed replacements for the Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus on our 1995 C280; he really felt the Michelins were poor in the rain and didn't want another set. I did some research and reluctantly (I really didn't want to have the problems Steve talks about and cost was not a concern) bought a set of Bridgestone RE-950s. They have been excellent (much superior to the Michelins); they have about 10K on them so far. So, the next set coming due are for our E430 and I am probably 70% of the way towards installing either RE-950s or SO-3 Pole Positions. I don't know what has happened at Michelin, but I had been noticing odd wear pattern problems that I could not seem to get corrected with alignment, pressures, etc. over the past ten years or so. So far, the RE-950s on the C280 are wearing perfect. Maybe the work Bridgestone is doing with the Ferrari F-1 team is carrying over to the passenger car tires, but it appears they have equaled, or perhaps exceeded Michelin from my experience.
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  #21  
Old 09-09-2002, 06:07 PM
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I appreciate the discussion here, both the users and the voices of experience.

There are definitely false economies to be had; not sure I think the Bridgestones fall in that category, but I just spent a wad on them, so I may be a hostile witness. For the record, the Tirerack folks didn't try to steer me one way or another. The sales rep gave me 3-4 choices that would fit (including Michelins), I said I'd call him back, I checked their site for reviews, I checked this site (which I trust more) for reviews, called my tech, and settled on the 950's. Price was a factor, but I mostly wanted quiet and rain traction.

Funny thing, all of my cars have been bought on the used market, and I have only ever sprung for new tires for the benzes. Even my first one out of college, a 64 190. New tires and shocks, and that car road like a...well...like an MB, of course!

I'll be happy to report back in a few years (it'll take my wife exactly 2.3 years to hit 40K) and let the forum know how they last. Any problems, Steve, and I'll put michelins on!
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  #22  
Old 09-09-2002, 06:57 PM
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If the alignment is right and you rotate them at your yearly service, they will do fine. Stay away from potholes!
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2002, 12:25 AM
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Steve, I've heard quite the opposite- Michelin factory kick-back (as I call it) is about $20, Yoko's about $5. Maybe I've heard wrong...
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2002, 09:20 AM
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I tried to get a Michelin dealership about twenty years ago. They came out and bluntly told me that I would be able to buy tires cheaper from others than through Michelin.

Whatever kickback you are talking about has to do with volume. I buy low speed sedan Michelins from a distributer over night for about the same price as I get wholesale from Tirerack (we are an authorized tirerack installer), but when it comes to Hi Speed tires my local distributer can't touch Tirerack. Has to do with volume.

I can tell you that with competative pricing one can only get about 15-20% mark-up on Michelins. Anybody else usually can be bought so cheap that 30-50% margins are the norm.
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  #25  
Old 09-19-2002, 10:37 AM
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Talking update

All noises went away with the new tires. 1500 miles or so and the re950's are nice, sticky wet and dry, quiet.

I probably had some damaged and/or very poor quality tires on prior. I could have sworn I heard some bearing noise, definitely tire noise, and another mystery noise that seemed very irregular and inconsistent. All gone. Or the gremlins are biding their time!:p
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2002, 02:16 AM
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Anybody have any comments on how the RE950s perform on snow and ice? Are they good enough for a Canadian winter?
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2002, 02:26 AM
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Only experienced in my '80 VW PU on slush. They are adequate.
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