16V cold and hot start problems
 

My 87 190E 2.3-16V has been in the shop repeatedly for start and idle problems. My mechanic doesn't seem to know how to correct the situation. Please help.

Cold start: car starts up and dies immediately, as if out of fuel. This continues until I give some pressure to the throttle, but the engine will not idle without continuous pressure on the throttle.

Hot start: after car is hot and engine is turned off, same starting problem resumes.

First drive: when the car is first driven, for about a quarter mile it coughs and chokes as if there is vacuum loss. (I am not mechanically inclined so "vacuum loss" may be incorrect description and may be misleading. Apologies, if this is the case.)

Once the car has been driven for several minutes the idle settles down at 1300 RPM (not at the 900 +/- 50 specified by the factory).

Above problems occur regardless of a/c being on or off.

My mechanic has already replaced 1) throttle valve; 2) air flow position sensor; 3) potentiometer and then my a/c compressor had to be replaced (????) when the a/c stopped working during one of the repair trips.

It is most frustrating. Thanks in advance for your comments and help.

How about valve clearance? Has the valve adjustment been checked? That could cause the STARTING problem.

The idle circuit needs imput from 4 sensors to operate correctly.
Idle contact switch, decel switch, air flow position sensor, & speed sensor(hall effect) imput.

M.B. Doc.

Thank you so much for your prompt reply!!! I am going to give a hard copy of your suggestion to my mechanic right away.

I don't think the valve clearance has been checked. Now I am concerned that my guy is way over his head with this very special car. Should I be taking this car to the local M-B dealer to fix this problem?

Regards,
YF Yin

16V valve adjustment
 

M.B. Doc:

You asked about valve adjustment in your last message. I heard this is a big job and should be done by M-B dealer service technicians. Is this what you would recommend?

My start problem continues. I am killing the battery now, I think, because I have had to crank the starter so many times each time I try to start the car.

The idle is now at 1500 rpm when the car is finally started. I want to get both the start and idle problems solved but I want to make sure I take the car to the right place.

Please advise.

YF Yin

The valve adjustment requires SHIMS that come in 19 sizes. ANYONE must have the needed sizes OR they won't be able to adjust the valves!! ALSO the cams must come out if the valves need adjustment.

Most idle speed problems on the 16V engine are from the air flow housing SENSOR! It can also cause starting problems.

I notice no discussion here of fuel system issues such as leaky injectors. With a start-stall or long crank before start, isn't a quick leakdown test helpful?

M.B. Doc: Thank you.
Richard: Thank you.

I've decided not to take my car back to the mechanic who has not been able to solve my start-stall and long crank problems after repeated attempts. My problem is how to proceed. Is my best option to take the car to a M-B service center and have them try to fix the problems?

M.B. Doc:
I've noticed one more thing: when I shift to neutral (my car is a manual shift model) the RPM does not drop right away but stays at about 2500, then gradually settled down at my current idle rate of 1400-1500. Does this help you to further diagnose what could be my problems?

Yee-Fun Yin
'87 190E, 23-16
'84 Alfa Romeo, GTV6

MB.DOC: Are there any special tool requiered otherwise? I would appriciate if you could tell us the metods on how the measure what shim to use.

I got some clattering valves and would really get rid of the noise as quickly as possible.

Valve adjustment on a 16V isn't a diyER. Just having enough shims to make an adjustment will cost $150. Plus most people wouldn't have the expertize to remove & reinstall the cams to exchange these shims when needed.

Again MOST idle problems are related to AIR flow SENSOR problems.

I agree with the doc on all issues noted here. Used to do Jaguar and VW OHC adjustments and taking cams out and back in, sometimes twice, is no Saturday party under a tree. To the guy in Finland, US version 8V engines are hydraulic autoadjusters, so valve noise is a larger issue than adjustment.

If your local guy doesn't have MB tools and serious training, the road to fining the problem can be long and expensive. European system philosophies, combined with MB's almost isolated approach to vehicle systems offers problems to the average technician that are not easily solved, even with the right manuals. If you don't have a serious indepenent shop, pay the fees for dealer service. It will likely save your sanity in the long run.

M.B. DOC: Once again, thank you!
Richard: Thank you for your advice.

I was debating whether to take the car to an independent shop or to the dealer, but now I am certain to take the car to the dealer. All of your advice and suggestions are well taken and I do appreciate the discussions. I don't want to go down that long and expensive road to fixing the start and idle problems because I am not confident that my independent mechanics are familiar enough with this car.

I will post the results later when the car is fixed.

Sincerely,
YF Yin
'87 190E, 2.3-16

I have to disagree with the opinion that adjusting the valves on a 16V is difficult or beyond the skill of an average do it yourselfer. I adjusted mine a month ago when several of them were tight. I know there is a few other members on this list that have also adjusted their own. It is more complicated than a typical motor where there is an adjustment nut. But if one proceeds carefully and measures the clearance before and after there should be no problems. You can usually juggle the shims around so you will only need to buy a few. They are about $3.00 a shim.
The intake will usually be ok, but the exhaust will get tighter.

My $.02.

Tinker

The shims list for $6.00 & dealer cost is $3.80. Also as stated this isn't a DIYer for most week-end mechanics. Have seen seen several techs BREAK camshafts trying this job.

M.B. Doc-- stupid question, but where is the AIR flow SENSOR located and what do I look for? thanks.

The air flow sensor is located under your air filter housing. The air filter housing is directly attached to it. You can't miss it. It's the funnel with a plate in the middle. The plate in the middle is sucked down by the air that passes it and this gives info to the ecu on how much air the enging gets.

Actually, the airflow sensor is the device that makes the major adjustments to fuel flow in that as the plate is deflected it displaces the control plunger in the center of the fuel distributor, increasing or decreasing the orifice opening to the injectors. If it is out of position, it places the plunger in the wrong position, thereby providing an incorrect amount of fuel to the injectors. This is especially a problem during start procedures since some major aspects of fuel control, i.e. lambda, are not part of the start cycle, only the cold start items have much input.

Dirt, air leaks, oil, and corrosion are common problems with this beast, as are improperly adjusted stop pins and uncentered sensor plates. As with any system sensitive to small adjustments, patience and diligence are essential.

M.B. DOC:

There is always a wait for appointments, so mine is scheduled for 10/3. But, the dealer mechanic who did a quick check on the start and idle problems thinks that my start problem is caused by a vacuum leak. That's a new opinion, yet I also remember the previous owner of the car had complained about a vacuum leak on this car -- though he said it was taken care of by his dealer service. Is this something difficult to locate and fix? Could they be right about a vacuum leak? How does a car develope a vacuum leak? How does one prevent it in the future? Thanks.

YF Yin

Vacuum leaks are reasonably easy to identify, and often easy to fix. Common leaks include injector seals, hoses, and the idle control circuit. Often found with a squirt bottle of water with the engine running. If your injector seals have never been replaced, they're good candidates for leaks as they age harden and crack.

If nothing is known about a particular vehicle, there is a certain sequence to evaluating problems; a logic diagram, if you wish. Once vehicles become better understood, the logic diagram has a different starting point: this is what you pay for with expert help. If your tech knows that 70% of MB 190 16V engines with hard starting problems have vacuum leaks, that's where the diagnosis will start. If that is not the cause of your problems, then a tech willl likely go to the next most common problem before undertaking a rigorous, expensive diagnostic series.

This opens a potentially heated discussion about the proper way to diagnose and treat vehicles, but I always preferred to establish the most likely issue first ( air, fuel, mechanical, electrical) and go from there. This is not intended as a superficial "fix the part and get it out" approach. If there is a blown fuse, what caused the failure? corrosion or circuit overload? short to ground? bare wire? bad motor? A good tech soon learns, especially when concentrating on one brand, which problems usually cause which symptoms, but good techs are also willing to look efficiently for other issues when the common solution is inadequate.

So, if it's a vacuum leak, great. If not, we've already given you several possibilities that may be the actual problem. If the vehicle has not been well maintained, you may have a plethora of problems amid your dearth of diagnosis.

Richard:

Thank you. Your comments and suggestions are sensible and reasonable. I, too, prefer to solve the problem at its root whenever possible instead of a quick fix. A good mechanic, as you described it, is also a good engineer. They are hard to find. Unfortunately, in my area, it also means that sending a car for dealer service does not guarantee that a good tech will be working on the car.

Luckily, the previous owner of my car loved it and babied it. I really like my car and have taken very good care of it. The car is very clean and I don't let any problem linger.

After reading you message, I feel better now about getting the vacuum leak checked out first.

Cheers,
YF Yin
'87 190E, 2.3-16

I suggest you move to Florida and let Steve work on your vehicle, or maybe Georgia, and let the DOC do it. Why not ask the forum, under a new topic, for recommendations in your area, even specific people within a given dealership? You may have noted the credits some people here place after their names. Those indications of mastery are often good places to start, but at a dealership, some of the names listed may be no longer involved in actual daily repairs. Be willing to ask, and if you don't like the answer, reevaluate your decision to be there. If you're going to pay the rates, you'd better receive the service!

P.S. Mastery is the start of a journey, not the end. One who attains mastery and stops seeking is no longer a master.:)

16V cold and hot start problems
 

Gentlemen,
I have a similar problem with my 16V, 1986, 155k miles.
Starting is OK, but when cold outside (almost winter here in Colorado) the idle speed is very low, 500-700 so the engine stalls easily, especially when engaging in Drive (which will reduce the already low idle.) In the summer, the idle was fine, around 1100.
All fuel related parts are new as is the O2 sensor.
I am suspecting, as RCMKTG and MBDoc suggested, that the Air Flow sensor potentiometer is bad.

Question: Anyone knows a source for a new one? I have checked around and the best price was $420 (ouch.)

Regarding the AirFlow sensor, I did check check the potentiometer (while disconnected from harness) and slowly moved the plunger up/down. I found the readings to be erratic, espacially in certain positions. My mechanic (MB independent whom I trust) told me that his test showed that the sensor is OK.
While I respect his expertise and based on my own measurement,
I tend to think that the part is worn out (and why not, after 155k miles).

Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Pat, if you are reading, you mentioned having a similar problem. Maybe we can get a few people together for a group buy?


THanks All, this is a wonderful forum and resource!!!

Tony Ander
aander@newsignal.com

Tony,

I don`t think you can tell much by unhooking it (air flow meter) and checking it. Best to remove one side of the connector and plug it back in. This allows you to monitor the voltage between pins one and two with either the key on or while driving. You are looking for open circuits. It should be in the .8 to almost 5v range depending on throttle position.

Sounds like you don`t have confidence in your mechanic it he stated it was ok?

I am assuming you have investigated all the other components, ie decel switch, throttle position sensor, auxillary air vavle, valve adjustment, ect....?????

Tinker

Blame it on the bossa nova
 

The potentiometer senses change in airflow, and modifies the signal sent to the EHA during post start and warm up phases of the running engine. First thing to check on my list is the signal at the eha ( electro-hydraulic aAcurator) the controlled leak that modifies the control side of the fuel distributor, and thusly the amount of fuel available to the injectors. If it floats and varies according to the normal startup sequence, and brief throttle blipping causes an approx 10ma variation, the potentiometer is not the likely cause.

The idle speeds you spoke of are the inverse of normal, making at least two other items suspect: the thermal sensor and air leaks in the intake system or injector seals. Check those first.

This fuel system will not tolerate random checks and scattered approaches to diagnosis. You and your service technician must be willing to follow the proper sequence, from battery voltage available to the computer through every logic step necessary to the particular event you are pursuing. Only if those tests fail to bring a solution should other areas be examined. Of course, if there is an obvious problem, like a broken hose or wire, fix that first.

Otherwise, the bossa nova is just a dance.

Richard

Tony,

I am convinced that no independent mechanic in my area (CT) knows the 16V's enough to service the idle and start/stall problems. Don't change your air flow potentiometer unless you and everyone is convinced it is causing your current problems. I made the mistake of believing my independent mechanic and paid for a new air flow sensor potentiometer assembly and I am back to square one. My start/stall and idle problems persist. It was a costly, and ultimately useless, repair -- not to mention wasted time and money.

Since my last posting, the "vacuum leak" problem has been taken care of (hoses and clamps) as suggested by MBDoc and Richard through the forum. My own dealer said they don't have a mechanic who's trained on this 16V engine so they won't touch the start/stall and idle problem. Another independent mechanic (Porche specialist) suggested the onboard computer has to be replaced (that's over $1K); so for now, I am just living with the nuisance of start/stall and high idle (1400rpm).

Y.F. Yin
1987 190E 2.3-16

Y. F.,

Sounds like were all in the same boat regarding the high idle and stalling with our beloved (ha) 16v`s.

If you go back over some of my prior posts, you will see my unending journey. I also had the mystery vacuum leak that I couldn`t find. It really caused a problem after I cleaned the throttle body with carb. cleaner. The idle shot up to 1500 and would not come down! I ended up removing the whole injection manifold and resealing it with new gaskets and hoses. The result......no big difference! AURGHHH!!!!

But...... I finally got my idle down to a normal level after playing with it for a few WEEKS. But now I have a stalling issue

Here is what I want you to do. When it starts to idle high, check the voltage or duty cycle at the X11 plug #3 pin on the drivers side inner fender. Tell me if you see a fixed or fluctuating voltage.

I think this might steer both of us in the right direction. I want to see if you readings are the same as mine.

Tinker

I was having a simular problem with my 300TE. It would die as if the fuel just shut off. In my particular case, it was the idle speed control valve located just under the air cleaner housing. There is a valve inside that controls air mixture (I believe). The valve rotates with a pivot point located on the outside of the housing. I tested it by taking it off and applying current where the plug connects to. The valve should open when current is applied and close immediately when current is removed. Mine didn't close right a way when the current was removed and I noticed the pivot point had some rust on it. I put some WD40 on the pivot point and let it set overnight and the next day activated the valve with current several times and the valve inside reacted as it should. I put the idle control valve back in the car and it hasn't stalled since and idles beautifully. It's been 3 months. Hope this helps!

Hi All,
Regarding my cold idle problem, I have watched it some more, but had not time to innvestigate further. What I found is:
1. If I crank and am ready to press the pedal right after the
engine starts (which is 1-2secs) as well as I keep cranking for another second or two, then I can keep the engine running.
After just a few seconds, if I release the accel. pedal the idle speed seems to be OK!

2. If now I put it in drive I may stall it, but wainting maybe a minute will allow the engine to sufficiently warm up (?) so that
the extra load when in Drive will not stall it (it will reduce the idle by a few hundred RPMs).

So I am thinking of to look for (1) a component that only affects the idle right after start for a short time and (2) the switch that
tells the ISC that drive is engaged -- does anyone know where this switch may be located?

Tony.
PS: Thanks for the suggestion for the air-flow meter. Indeed, I
did not check it in-circuit, I only measured what I thought would be the potentiometer wiper's output. My mechanic did check it
while the sensor was "live", so he must be right!

Guys, your idle problems may be idle problems, in which case do the cold start checks in the trouble shooting guides, such as EHA start mA and decay rates, Coolant sensor resistance at various temps, cold start valve leakage, system residual pressure, buildup time, and limits. Also, verify the operation of the idle speed air bypass valve, or indle speed control valve ( you know, pinch the hose off both cold and hot to see how it affects idle speed). If all those things are in limits, you probably don't have an idle speed or start-up problem per se, but another problem, which when compensated for, becomes an idle speed problem.

For instance, adjusting mixture while ignoring a vacuum leak or a malfunctioning injector, weak cylinder, bad plug, etc, is a sure way to ruin the systems's ability to compensate for the non-standard needs of start-up and warm up conditions. I've not seen anybody talk (in this string) about airflow sensor rest and zero positions, centering in the bore, and so on. Everything, and I mean everything, is at its worst ability to compensate under cold start conditions.

You need to have the system pressure gauges and the ability to use digital multimeters, as well as skills at analyzing spark plug coloration to get through this. I had to rig up a way to test my injectors by building a fuel distributor tied in to the vehicle fuel system but still allowing me to observe the individual patterns and volumes of fuel. Once I did that, and all other checks were satisfactory, I had to completely readjust the mixture settings at operating temperature idle, because before that time the lambda system was trying to balance three good cylinders against one bad.

How about cold compression vs hot? How about first compression stroke in each cylinder vs maximum value (5 strokes)? I've used the "1 vs several" with good success to find valvetrain problems.

Sorry for the soapbox oration, but you seem to be running in circles by looking for solutions to symptoms instead of finding and repairing root causes.

Hi All,

Richard is probaby right, but I am not mechanically inclined so I will need to rely on my mechanic to check everything and try to get to the root of the problems.

Until then, I have resorted to Tony's methods for circumventing the start/stall problem. On my car, usually it runs smoothly after I get it going and prevents it from stalling. My car stalls out with cold and hot engine.

I forgot to mention in my last message that my mechanic replaced the idle control valve already and it didn't help at all. After that he replaced the air flow potentiometer assembly. I now believe what Richard is saying: probably neither part needed replacing.

I now detect "vacuum" problem only in 5th gear at 3500 rpm when I try to punch the accelerator. There seems to be no problem above 4000 rpm.

Since I don't work on the car myself, I tend to find a way to live with the problems instead of taking it to the shop every time.

Y.F. Yin

Richard,

I have done everything you have mentioned in your post. Gone through the factory CD trouble shooting matrix a few times. Checked the compression and leakdown numbers, yes the first stroke is important and telling. Checked fuel pressures, upper and lower chamers, and residual pressure. Replaced anything questionable, including a few good parts. Adjusted the valves, resealed the whole intake system and reset the resting height of the air flow meter. Lamba is in spec and fluctuates at temps.

It starts on the first turn of the key when cold......and stalls or almost stalls when hot. Air flow meter is in spec with no open circuit noted while driving around the neighborhhod.

My neighbor, who owns his own shop and has worked on MB`s, BMW`s and Porsches for over 40 years is also stumped.

I am searching for some new ideas......

Tinker

Tinker, et.al,

I've seen a few items that mess the minds of people who work on these fussy systems.

1. The injectors can look ok when tested exactly as described in the test procedures and still be worthless. Are you using an exhaust gas analyzer in conjunction with the mA readings at the EHA? Have you ever tried a comparison of the idle speed change caused by individual cylinder shorting? IF all compression numbers are relatively equal, the combination of these things can lead to at least an indication of whether the problem is related to the whole system, or the system is trying to compensate for one (or more) weak spots. For example, any injector that isn't getting the fuel atomized correctly leaves unburned fuel in its related cylinder, which affects the lambda, causing it to lean out the system.
Are you getting the same quantity of fuel through each injector? IF you make asetup like I have, that uses a known good fuel distributor, EHA, and pressure regulator as a test system, you can check both output pattern and quantity, something the CD doesn't give you. Run all 4 injectors at once, letting them spray into individual plastic ( clear is very helpful ) containers. Do a 20 - 30 second run with approximately idle deflection and measure the fuel. Then do the same at a mid and full throttle setting. THey should be within 10% of each other at any setting. IF not, try changing them among the 4 output lines to verify the problem is not upstream. Using this method lets you observe the injector pattern as part of the system, not just on a test stand.

2. Wiring issues: Check both input and output values at both ends of the wiring harness. If you're electrically inclined, you may be able to convert the various values from volts to amps and vice versa. Between these you may find, as I did, that corrosion and age had reduced the number of connected strands from the normal 8 -15 to 2 or 3: enough to get a reading, but not enough to carry the load.

3. Low cold idle generally means not enough fuel or not enough air, assuming mechanical and electrical issues are resolved. Make a fabricated idle air bypass, plugging the inlet hole and connecting the fabricated unit to the output. With a regulated air source ( compressed air with a control valve ) start the engine and vary the amount of air you let into the system. IF idle increases with more air, the fuel side is probably ok, and your problem is in the air inlet and management of to intake system. IF it decreases, the fuel side is likely the problem. IF there is no effect, take the adapter that gets the air into the intake manifold apart and clean it so all orifices are open and try again.

4. Uncalibrated timing light, or incorrect selection of timing marks or timing mark indicator. Consumer reports did a check a few years ago and found timing lights varied by up to 10 degrees. What would a change of 10 degrees mean to your system?

5. Leaky high voltage wires. Cold, wet engines are most susceptible to high voltage leaks. Big leaks can be seen in full darkness. Smaller leaks are harder to find.

6. One last thing: did you ever get a load of bad fuel, or do you know if that ever happened? Though the filters are pretty efficient, you can get enough stuff through to mess up the distributor, even plugging the littel filter cones.

7. Finally, try purposely enriching the mixture, so the mA readings at the EHA indicate the system trying to lean out the mixture. Start with about a 4mA change and check the effect.

8. If you're brave, and can visually examine the computer circuit board, use a 3x or more magnifier and look for cold or fractured solder joints. These can be repaired.

Richard,

I appreciate the insight.

1. The injectors and seals are new, but this doesn`t rule out a problem with the fuel distributor. I might have to invest in some graduated flasks to measure individual (cc) outputs. If the fuel distributor is bad though, the performance would be lousy, especially at higher rpm. This is not the case

2. I had the same thoughts and have started down this road. I have already checked continuity throughout the harness to the brain which was ok. But it could be a problem with the brain itself. I plan on checking readings again from the brain connector to the various components both cold and hot.

3. Cold start is not a problem. Its only after its at 80+ C degrees that the stalling occurs. I might have to rig up some manually controlled idle valve.

4. Timing is completely controled by the computer. You can`t even see the timing marks on the crank, there is no room.

5. It does need a set of new wires. If I pull off the wires one at a time while the car is running, there is noticeably less arc present on cylinder two. But there is no visible arcing or miss while the car is running. Its another $180 investment I need to make.

6. Fuel filter was replaced. I also removed the smaller screens from the fuel distributor. They looked pretty clean.

7. I tried playing with the mixture, on both ends of the acceptable range with no difference.

8. I did open up the CIS computer and look at the curcuit boards, but saw nothing out of the ordinary. They are suppose to be fairly robust.

If I drive it while hot, it will attempt to stall at lights. But, if I stop and keep my foot on the gas to keep it idling and then put it into neutral and slowly release my foot it will generally idle a nice steady 900 rpm. If I rev it at this point, it generally will not stall.

I appreciate your time and thoughts. I am going to give it a few more hours of my FREE time and if I fail, seek new professional help.

Tinker

OK, so some things are likely fine from my list. Let's look at # 3 on your reply. Stalling over 80C engine temp. Put an ammeter in the EHA circuit and watch what happens during this event, and compare that to behavior below say, 60C. Are you leaning out purposely ( lower and lower current readings )? After obtaining the readings, put a resistor in the coolant temp sensor line, say 250ohms, and try again. Did the problem go away? If so, the temp sensor or its related wiringis not giving a true picture to the computer.

Second part of the check: Vacuum readings at idle, cold and hot. The engine needs to draw enough air to keep the sensor plate deflected or it shuts off the flow of fuel. IF you have a temperature related vacuum leak, such as a cracked casting, or a valve with too little clearance, heat will affect its performance.

Idle switch, A/C switch, etc. Make certain you're actually activating the supplemental idle control switches. IF the AC cycles on without giving a signal to the computer, you'll lose 5hp, and about 100 - 200 rpm. IS it dead yet?

Your # 4 response: If you can't get to the factory timing marks when running ( it's difficult on a 2 valve, but can be done), you should still be able to see them with the engine stopped. Get to TDC1 and put a mark on the cover and pulley wherre you can get at them with a light. Also mark off a second line on the pulley at 10 BTDC by measuring the distance with a caliper and transferring it to your new marks location. Then you can perform a visual check of timing location. Timing delayed by 5 - 7 deg is enough to give the system problems in meeting idle emissions, so it will keep leaning the system out to try to get to a good lambda reading.

Your #1 Fuel distributor failures come in all variants. A little cross injector leakage, or a marginal bleed volume to the pressure regulator could result in idle loss. Are you really dead perfect on the two set heights (zero and stop )?

Your # 5: This is part of what I was talking about with an idle test. The best way to do this is with an electronic, digital tach and an electronic cylinder shorting system like many diagnostic systems have. You're looking for say, 150 rpm drop at each cyl. If one drops 10 and the rest 160, you've narrowed the search to one suspect.

IF you go to open mode ( bypass the O2 sensor ) what happens?
Have you done the two primary O2 sensor tests?

Richard and all curious others,

FIGURED IT OUT!

It only took about six months!

I reset the air flow meter`s resting height. It was too low causing constant pressure on the fuel distributor`s plunger.

I also reset the throttle body resting stop. I believe that these DO wear causing air to bleed past resulting in a high idle. My problems initially started after I cleaned it.

So far (tonight) I have beat the heck out of it and can`t make it stall. The wife is amazed. Starts on the first crank of the key with no throttle.

I`ll keep you posted if it acts up again.

Thanks for all the thoughts.

Tinker

Way to go, Tinker!
 

I have been following this thread for a while...thanks for keeping us up to date. I haven't heard anyone else with idle problem do this but this would make sense.

Please do post again if it starts acting strange...but for now good luck and enjoy your car.

Tinker,

Isn't it amazing that things we thought we checked once turn out to be in need of adjustment. Congratulations.

Richard

Also, after congratulations, note that I referrred to that very problem on 10/31