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  #16  
Old 09-23-2002, 05:55 PM
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>>>>Proper: Aux Fan Operation reviewed yet???? 2 Stages

Its simple and can easily be a source for your situation.

-fad
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  #17  
Old 09-23-2002, 07:03 PM
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Appreciate the input on the thermstat, and I am inclined to think that this is not it since both the old and the new performed the same way - temps climb with slower speeds.

The vclutch - I can't tell you guys how many times I have felt the resistance when I spin the fan. I felt it with engine cold, engine hot. There is resistance to spinning the fan by hand in all cases. I even saw one post that stated that the spin down time should be 2-5 sec for a good vclutch. I had my better half (my wife let me buy this car in the first place!) turn off the key and timed the spin down and it meets the 2-5 sec test.

Again, the temps I observe now are hotter than before, but never exceed 110C on the gauge. I even added WW but that had no noticable effect.

Thanks for all of the correspondance and suggestions to date. I always save my good problems for this great group.
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  #18  
Old 09-23-2002, 07:40 PM
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the v-clutch activates way too late in the game IMHO. as one member says, you're already on your way to the red zone by the time it kicks in. if you read the archives you'll notice that there are mods to remedy that, and someone has even found a "tropical duty" version that makes a lot of sense for some parts of the US. if the v-clutch were to really help, then you wouldn't need that resistive cooling mod i was talking about. it sounds like you haven't driven it that much since the repair. i would keep an eye on it. like i said, mine exhibited similar behavior after my HG repair and went through all the above, except for the v-clutch...
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  #19  
Old 09-23-2002, 08:40 PM
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Arthur Dalton's posts on page 1 of this thread are worth considering, especially the first one regarding coolant concentration. I mention this one first because it's the easiest to check/resolve.

I had a head gasket changed out on a 103 motor in May of this year. Temps ran a bit higher and I shared some of the same fears expressed at the start of this thread. I started with the easy stuff(coolant concentration) and sure enough, it was WAY too high. Check out JimF's gadget in the thread below. I used the Prestone concentration tool and Jim's calibration to verify an excessive concentration of coolant.

Coolant help and WaterWetter notice

The garage was apparently in a hurry and didn't bother to pre-mix coolant and H2O which I believe is best.

Arthur's second question regarding the shaving of the head is worth considering too. If it was, compression would be raised and a by-product of that could be increased temps.

Last edited by Mike Richards; 09-25-2002 at 12:14 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-23-2002, 10:10 PM
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Did the shop replace any of your coolant temp sensors? If you had oil in your coolant, which is unusual for a 104 engine, then the sensors get contaminated with gunk and don't give proper readings.

If that's the case, you may have had this problem all along, and not known it.

Regardless, I agree with the previous suggestions. Alter your coolant to water ratio down in favor of water; if nothing then replace T-stat; then try V-clutch; radiator being last resort.

Also check your belt tension to see if it is tight.

Good luck
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  #21  
Old 09-23-2002, 10:15 PM
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Can the cam timing be off?
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  #22  
Old 09-24-2002, 09:46 PM
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Today when driving home from Chicago had some stop and go at 65F. Temps went to 100C again.
I'm pretty sure that I do not have a cooling system problem, and
After reviewing all of the posts, I'd like to follow-up on the CAM timing suggestion. Since the timing chain was replaced during HG repair, it is possible that it is different.

Q: Is there any way to verify that the timing is correct w/o some engine dis-assembly? That is to check the relationship of the dual OVHD cams to the crank. I am also thinking about pulling the plugs for a visual inspection.
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  #23  
Old 09-24-2002, 10:15 PM
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the engine has sophisticated variable valve timing / computer controlled spark advance. if the timing chain were not aligned at assembly i think you would definitely know. i don't think it would even operate properly - maybe the techs can weigh in on that.

to give you an idea how common this is check out this thread: m104 optimum temps
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  #24  
Old 10-04-2002, 07:56 PM
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I have been discussing my car's temp performance at the lunch table, and one suggestion I got (remember by head gasket has been replaced), it that I have a lead in my intake system.

This would make the car run lean, hence hot.

Does this theory make sense, and if it does, is there any way to check the integrity of the intake system?
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  #25  
Old 10-04-2002, 09:32 PM
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It would "miss" at idle if it had a leak in the intake system. How is it running otherwise?
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  #26  
Old 10-04-2002, 09:59 PM
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If you had a leak in the intake system, it would do more than just make your car miss at idle.

My car had a leak in the intake manifold, and the car would barely idle.

It screwed up the operation of probably both the mass air sensor and the throttle actuator, and the idle oscillated up and down rapidly, as the computer tried to figure out the proper mixture of air and fuel.

The car was completely undriveable.
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  #27  
Old 10-05-2002, 08:22 AM
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Thanks for the feedback. The car is running ok, both at idle and at cruise. I guess my only other theory is that there could be some debris located in the radiator as a result of the repair. I plan to pull the radiator and back-flush as the next step - and see what comes out if anything.

I will let all know what I find. Thanks.
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  #28  
Old 10-05-2002, 09:22 AM
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quite a few of us on the board have m104 engines that behave like yours and some have accepted that it is normal. my own pet theory is that my rad is not as free-flowing as i would want it to be, what with 9 years on the clock and the PO using who-knows-what type of coolant changed at unknown intervals. if you're going to pull the rad, why don't you look into dipping it in an acid bath? i don't really know how feasible this is with the plastic components. i had it done once on a saab's rad some years back - took a couple of hours. they also rodded the tubes but unfortunately found that a few of them were shut beyond repair so that there was little or no discernable effect. i don't believe any amount of backflushing and even citric acid will get rid of the kind of buildup i'm talking about. in any case, keep us posted...

BTW, went through some nasty NYC traffic yesterday, ambient temps 65F. temps went no higher than 95 after cruise - stop and go sequence. this is with my current fix of using an 83C thermostat. with the 87C thermostat i don't doubt it would have behaved like yours!
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  #29  
Old 10-05-2002, 09:58 AM
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Tom,
I don't want to harp on this but several folks have suggested checking your coolant concentration. I know, you've replaced the coolant with 50/50, but if you haven't done so, I would strongly recommend actually checking the concentration with a tester (like the Prestone one described in JimF's post). I know from personal experience that it is virtually impossible to really drain all the coolant, and so if the previous ratio was high and you add a 50/50 mixture it'll STILL be too high. The only way to know is to test.

I would definitely start here before working on more esoteric possibilities.
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  #30  
Old 10-05-2002, 10:27 AM
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Try to keep it simple, process of elimination

Hi,

Sounds as though you know your car pretty well and am convinced that the probelm corelates to the head work.

I would think of all the items the mechanic would have interfaced while performing the repair and which could have been altered.

sound like you've replaced most of the low hanging fruit already. I would think it's possible the fan, which I am assuming was removed in order to do the timing chain work may have had something happen to it and it is no longer functioning as intended.

Stick to the basics, sounds like it's cooling fine at speed and under load but heats up at stand still. I have found bad radiator to exhibit opposite tendancies, can idle all day but under load car heats up.

Sounds like could be an airflow at standstill as long as you've rulled out mixture, presume you've redone mixture yourself and you are satisfied with concentration.

Probabilities are high your change in running temp resulted from recent work.

There are only so many components and chances are it's got to be one of them. Coolant, radiator, airflow. water-pump, thermostat....

Good luck,
Joel
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