Help!! 600SL calling to me!
 

OK I found a 1993 600SL. It is in great condition, and I am also purchasing an aftermarket warranty from the dealer who is selling it.

Is there any reason to stay away from the 600's? Im kind of fearful of large repair bills since it is a V12 and kind of a unique item, thats why Im getting the warranty which the dealer says can be used at a MB dealer.

Any advice on the 600SL's? He is asking for 24,500 and it has 91k miles, but Im sure he will be open to negotiation when I bring cash down.

You guys are my last hope, please offer pros and cons. For the same money I can get a 500SL with less miles, but wow that V12 must feel insane!!!!

Thanx

Here is a thread that has some good info from a tech that posts under username euro 287:

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-sl-discussion-forum/35724-sl-600-upgrades.html?highlight=600SL

Also, one of the moderators, Ashman, can give you advice on the 600SL.

His father has owned one for many years.

Try e-mailing him.

Thanx guys.


Just ran a carfax on the VIN, 99% perfect, but it did have a failed emissions about 7 months ago. Will ask the dealer about that, Im sure he will guarantee it will pass.

Any other opinions on this car? Am I getting in over my head? Whats a basic 100k service run on one of these?

There wouldn't be a 100k service.

I think the services in the maintenance book go at 7,500 mile intervals.

Minor services occur at 15k, and major services go at 30k.

The only maintenance items that go on time, not miles, are brake fluid (every two years), and coolant (every 3 years).

Thus, your 30k, 60k, 90k, 120k should be the exact same price because you are changing the same fluids and filters, plugs, etc.

As the car ages, though, the only additional cost would be repairs / replacement of items that are worn out.

suginami, what is your take on the 600SL overall? Is it a reliable auto? Are there any problem areas? Are they money sinks? Are they that much better than a 500SL?

My main concern is I dont want to get in over my head with repairs and basic maintenance. Any feedback on these would be appreciated.

I'm afraid I really can't answer your questions with certainty because I don't own one.

I can say that I believe a 600SL is an awesome one and I covet one greatly. I think I have broken one of the ten commandments...

I can only go with what I've read on this site, and I don't believe they are materially more expensive to own than a 500 SL.

I gather there might be some added costs because of the two extra cylinders, and some repairs might be more expensive because there is less room to work in under the hood. Kind of like the same issues the W124's have with the V8's.

But then again, the R129's were designed to accept these engines, so it may be different. It might be tight to work on even with a V8, though.

I guess my advice is to make sure the car has a full maintenance history, and to get a good warranty - not because it's a V12, but because it's always a good idea to get a warranty on a used Mercedes, whenever possible.

Here is a link to the MBUSA home page. It doesn't go back to 1993. It starts at 1995, but it's really the same car in your case:

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/starmark/overview/overview_engine.jsp?spec=3&subNav=overview&yearModelCode=88_SL600CR&class=88_SL&rnav=012345678&menu= 2_3

Have you tried e-mailing Ashman? He's a great guy and could give you a ton of first hand experience on this car.

Thanx much. I have my heart set on a 500SL, but so much more on this 600SL I have found. I guess my basic question remains, is it more expensive to own a 600SL over a 500SL?

Here's a link to msn autos. It's the page that shows consumer reviews. You can see if the review is for an SL 320, SL 500, or SL 600.

There are fewer reviews of the SL 600's, but if you toggle through the different years, you'll get a good idea of what people like / dislike about the car. The engine is the same throughout all of the years, so it really doesn't matter about the year:

http://autos.msn.com/userreviews/reviewlist.aspx?idmodel=1918&search=MostRecent&num=50&trim=All&lang=All

From reading the reviews of the R129 SL's in Frank Barrett's Illustrated Guide to Mercedes Benz, there really isn't anything different on the 600SL that isn't offered on the 500SL.

Beginning in 1991, automatically adjusting shock absorbers (ADS) and electronic traction control (ASR) were options on the 500 SL, but came standard on the 600 SL.

All SL's have self-leveling rear suspension, dual air bags, remote locking, an electrostatic air filter to capture smog and dust particles.

0 to 60 performance times were 8.3 seconds for the 300SL, 6.3 seconds for the 500, and the 600SL in 5.9 seconds.

How do you spot a 600SL? Besides the model number on the trunk, a V-12 emblem adorns each front fender vent. Because of its longer engine, the 600SL's front bumper projects 2 inches farther forward than those of the 300 and 500SL. The V-12 has a few deluxe interior trim touches, including a leather and wood shift knob and a wood-trimmed shift gate panel. A cellular phone and a CD changer are standard equipment, as is ASR control.

Basically, the 600SL is equipped the same way as a 500SL, I can't see why it would be more in maintenance, except that you're replacing two more spark plugs, two more spark plug wires, etc.

The mpg is 15-22 for the 300SL, 16-20 for the 500SL, and 13-18 for the 600SL.

I have a 96 SL600 and everything is expensive on the car. The 93 was a sole year of production for this type of 600sl. That means there are parts found on the 93 not found on any other sl which translates into higher costs. And that is if the parts are available, check fastlane, some parts for this car are not carried so your only resource will be the dealer. By 90k miles, the shocks are probably shot which will cost you $2000 to repair. Plus you need new o2 sensors and mass airflow sensors to keep everything in check. Plus a complete tuneup changing all the fluids on the car. If I were you, I would take it to the dealer and have them to check every single component imaginable and very important to have a smog check. I have my sl, smog checked every year, to make sure everything is ok. If it fails or borderline, walk away from the car. Some of these V12s ran rich for a brief moment and their motors were destroyed. Basically, the 600 is an expensive motor, the sl is an expensive car, and it is a sole year production. My advice is to buy a 98+ SL500. I would stay away from the 93 model unless the previous owner worked out everything and the car was meticulous kept after.

P.S. Check the tires for depth. My SL eats tires although I dont have AMG wheels.

The self-adjusting shocks are the same price on a SL 500.

1993 is not the only year for the 600SL. The badge was changed to SL600, and production continued through 1995. I can't imagine why parts would be different from '93 to '94 and '95. Just the badge changed. Here is a link to the MB USA website that shows production figures for each year:

http://www.mbusa.com/brand/container.jsp?/overview/overview_engine.jsp?spec=3&subNav=overview&yearModelCode=88_SL600CR&class=88_SL&rnav=012345678&menu= 2_3

I think all of your comments are valid about having the car meticulously checked out. The maintenance costs of these SL's will be higher than other cars. But there are no expenses in a SL600 that wouldn't be incurred in a similarly optioned SL500. They also use the same fuel injection system, LF-SFI (hot wire mass air flow sensor, sequential fuel injection).

I think the running rich thing ruining the engine is from the isolated example of the guy in Montana who has an S600.

O2 sensors, fluids, filters, etc. would be checked / changed in any car regardless of the engine.

I just remembered. When I picked up my car from Mr. MB Motors on Saturday, Enrique was replacing the rear shocks on an S600. They were the self-leveling kind. They were about $900 each, if I remember correctly.

I am pretty sure that there are some 93 specfic parts. The 500SL had a m119 motor which is much more popular than the v12s. M119 are found in many mercedes like 500E, E420, S420 and s500. I own both motors m119 and the v12 and the m119 costs me about half in costs than the v12. I think the USA destined production numbers were usually less than 2000 per year dwindling down to about a thousand at the end of the production.

O.K., but I'm not sure what they would be, and why they would increase the maintenance costs.

I feel I might be getting carried away in this discussion. I mean, look at me, getting defensive about this model even though I'm not even the one thinking about buying it. I'm starting to embarrass myself.

I guess I'm vicariously enjoying the "possible" purchase of this car as I deep down inside secretly want one (don't tell my wife).:D

SpineDoc (my parents do physical therapy, btw ;)),

Is amazing as the SL600 would be, I would say no to it. Only because if you were worried about the 300E being a maintenance nightmare, I tend to feel that the 300E might be a dream in comparison.

Whatever you do, I wish you the best of luck.

Thanx again guys, David you remember me :) ...

Im thinking I dont even want to go see this car, once I drive it I will be seriously hooked. Im starting to think it may be over my head though, I dont feel like shelling out 2k every time the car has a squeak and a rattle.

I sure wish I could get a tech's opinion on this, someone who has worked on these before. David, do you think I would have the same headaches on a 500SL? Im almost starting to think I should just put down my 20k on a 1999 or so CLK and finance the rest, or even <shudder> a SLK.

I was just pumped because this 600 was so cheap, but in such good condition.

OK my question still stands, am I better off with a 500SL, or the 600SL? Is the 600 that much more expensive than a 500 to maintain? etc etc.

But now, after looking, I realize I can get a CLK for pretty close to the same price. I see lots of 1999 clK320's for low 20k's. What do you guys think of CLK versus the SL? How about the CLK320 versus the CLK430?

Thanks again, I would have made some big mistakes if not for you guys.

CLK's are great, but now you're talking about a coupe instead of a convertible.

I like both cars, but I guess you need to decide what you'd rather be driving.

If it were me, I'd always opt for the V8. Plus, you wouldn't feel embarrassed if a Lexus SC430 pulled up next to you.

I looked at SLK's, but man are they small. Sit in one and you'll see what I mean. I'm a pretty tall guy (6'1", 180 lbs.), though.

Conversing with the dealer with the 600SL he was very cool and he was very confident in his extended warranty. Ballpark I should get 4 years of warranty for about 2000 bucks, so Im not super worried about expensive parts or a bad engine/trans, Im sure expendables will be expensive, but oh well.

We are also getting a computer readout from the dealership, and the carfax checked out.

Just to be safe I am keepng my daily commuter for the time being, until this one has proven itself. I cannot wait to go test drive it Thursday. I wish some of the techs on here would have advised me on this, but Im sure they are busy doing their own thing. For those of you that did advise me, thanks much, very much appreciated. I do know it will be an expensive auto, but Im less worried with the warranty, plus its not like Im poor either, just "frugal".... lol.

If anyone has any further opinions on the 600SL please let me know before Thurs.

Also, check out alldata.com as it's an excellent site for showing what goes on with almost every make of vehicle....

stay away
 

i looked at 600s before i bought my sl500. i thought, for a few grand more you get the extra power, extra leather, and all the options...but every mechanic i talked to, dealer or private, told me to stay away...even with a warranty. leaks from gaskets are often not covered by your warranty and hoses, etc. are definitely not (remember, this isn't a manufacturer's bumper-to-bumper). access is tight, and thus fixing those things not covered by your warranty will be pricey. he told me a small oil leak could easily run $2200 to fix. just call your local mb dealer and talk to a serviceperson. i've always found them very helpful and willing to give their .02 to someone needing advice.
also the 600s don't hold their value nearly as well - consider the premium the were over a 500 when new and how close in price you find them now.

I would personally go for the SL500 Spinedoc.

I know, I know, "an SL 600" would be wonderful! But I agree with texan's posts, and his comes from first hand research on the topic. Try a 96+ SL500... the 96's come with the slightly updated exterior as well,

Good luck!!

And, an SL500 still hawls serious @ss! And it's your dream-car/roadster... make it the best experience possible! 96 or newer SL500.......!

I agree with texan - I would stay away.

Maybe you just need the badge?
 

This forum, and many private conversations I have had, explain why the 600SL/SL600 is so cheap. Same reason the Porsche 928 is cheap. Expensive to fix and frequently the victim of deferred maintenance from second or later owners who could not pay the freight. Plus a rarefied parts market.

Maybe an SL500 with a quick badge change is called for?

BTW, the front Bilstein shocks for my 560SEL run ~$60 each and last at least 100,000 miles, the accumulatrors for the rear hydraulic suspension cost $100 each and last at least 80,000 miles. Makes you think about those $900 shocks, no? A 560SL (much the same cost to fix) may be a viable option at $20k for a mint, low mileage example. Then again, you might miss the super expensive electric/hydraulic top parts....:)

Can anyone confirm that the 500's are cheaper in parts and maintenance? Where are the techs? I figured they would have a field day with this subject, oh well, thanks much.

Once again Im holding off and looking for a 500SL, I think the 600 is just a bit too exotic for me and will fit better inthe future when I have the money to maintain it. For now a nice 500 like you guys say, or even an M3/M5. I might also peek at the CLK's, maybe I can find a CLK430 convertible that I can finance.

Thanks much guys.

After much soul searching and pondering I think Im going to wait a little time. The 600 I was looking at had 91k miles with no service records, plus in the carfax it had 5 owners and was in 2 auctions, didnt seem to be a keeper for some reason.

My goal is to save a bit more and get a 1996 or newer 500SL, or 600 if it pops up. I think I will be plenty happy with a newer 500 though.

Thanks much for the input guys, you possibly saved me from a bad investment.

By the way, my cousin, a dealer, keeps trying to talk me into a bimmer, ive driven a 1999 M3 and a 1998 540i sport, they are very nice and they can corner like no other auto, but something is just missing, some kind of look or feeling, make no mistake, my dream car is a MB.

Thanx again...

Good decision.

The lack of a complete maintenance history is the reason not to buy any car.

I wouldn't rule out a 600, though, if it had a complete maintenance record and could be had for the right price.

All things considered, if similarly equipped, the only difference between a 600 and a 500 would be the engine. Everything else is basically shared.