I checked my coolant level today... was quite high, so i removed some via a syphon (always keep one just incase I need to svavenge or donate some gas). Drove for a bit.. checked it... too high again (right up to filler cap). I syphoned off a quart, drove some more. Checked it again, and its full again!! Whats going on? Do I have loads of oil leaking in? Doesnt look too bad (clear blue antifreeze). Any help appreciated

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Brian Drought
1991 300CE
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drought/
ICQ: 2180069

The only way for your coolant quantity to increase is for oil (ATF or engine) to be leaking into your coolant. This can occur via a bad radiator (ATF), bad head gasket, cylinder head, etc. for engine oil.

Check your engine oil and transmission fluid levels to see if one or both are decreasing as your coolant level is increasing. Also check coolant reservoir cap. There should be some yellowish, foamy stuff on the inside of the cap if you have oil contaminated coolant.

Also note that the coolant will expand significantly as your engine warms up. Sometimes this is mistaken for increasing coolant quantity.

Hope this helps.

Hatch

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1980 240d 4sp
ASE Master Auto Technician
ASE Advanced Engine Performance

The oil will always float to the top. If you don't see any you are fine. Just wait for the car to cool and fill to the top of the tank. Don't remove coolant. The car will spit out the over-fill by itself through the tube under the cap.

HMMMM, sounds like you own a double over head cam-6 (104 series engine).If it's head gasket hasn't spewed a bunch of oil into your cooling system yet, don't worry,,,it will. They all do eventually, there have been many head gasket "updates" on this engine. How many miles are on it, how far are you out of warranty? A dealer I do alot of business with admits to having set aside funds (and a tech dedicated only to this problem) for "goodwill warranty purposes" because so many owners have been p!$$%@ off due to head gasket leaks. I'm sorry guys, I have been around these cars all of my life (both my Dad and Grandfather werembz techs) and I've been working on them for 18 years, and I have never been so disappointed in any design as I am in this "early jag wannabe cylinder head gasket". This is not the type of product I expect from the best autombile manufacturer in the world! They blew it and they know it,but have done very little to inform the unsuspecting public! I have seen too many examples of well maintained, unabused cars start spewing for no good reason and it ticks me off! I'm sorry if I offend anyone who thinks mbz can do no wrong, but I call it as I see it and I bet you that most techs who work on alot of these cars agree with me. I'm not saying that that particular series of engine is bad or doesn't run well, what I'm saying is that it has a flaw that the factory is well aware of and it should not be up to the customer to pay for the factories screw-ups.Well, I'll get off my soapbox now.

ooops 103 engine- can you tell I had a long day?

[This message has been edited by Alain V. (edited 09-09-1999).]

Check the radiator cap or the overflow container for pressure leak. Also, you may have air trapped inside the engine. Without the bleeding screw, sometimes it is hard to get the air out of the engine. The trapped air expands as the engine heats up and pushes coolant into the de-pressurized container.

David

Alain - its a 103, and I've already had the head gasket done ;-)

Luchtaine - presumably this will also mean Coolant in ATF?? Oh dear!

Benzmac - The overfill tube is connected back to the radiator top... how does this remove excess fluid?

David - Where is this bleeding screw? Half my engine is covered in 160K miles worth of gunk. ;-)

And finally.... I set my heater on max while idling... I could hear bubbling in the system.... airlock??!? I tried removing the cap and idling for 10 mins with the heater on. This didnt remove any air tho. Do I need to give it some RPM?

Temp seems to be a little odd.. climbs in traffic, but put it in N and rev to 4K and temp plummets... bad thermostat??

Thanks people!


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Brian Drought
1991 300CE
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drought/
ICQ: 2180069

Brian, I just re-read your original post. Is the car overheating? If so, have you "felt" the upper & lower hoses to see if it is circulating? It may be just a stuck or broken(at the top, pretty common)thermostat.

Alain,

The top hose is REALY hot (could hear boiling in it..)

I forgot about the bottom hose <G>

Do I need to check the bottom hose?

Was going to try and flush everything out and swap the thermostat over too.

Brian

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Brian Drought
1991 300CE
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~drought/
ICQ: 2180069

If the top hose is hot and the bottom hose isn't, then your thermostat may not be opening to let the coolant circulate. I have also seen thermostats break at the top where they are held together, wich causes strange things to happen in the cooling system. Bottom line: a thermostat is cheap and easy to change, I would start there. Remove the thermostat and if it isn't physically broken,put it in a pot of hot water and use a theremometer to check the temp of the water. Wait for the thermostat to open and note the temp. If the stat opened at the temp stamped in the unit it is ok, if it hasn;t opened and the water is alot hotter than the temp rating of the stat,replace it.

My final thought.
If you don't over fill these enignes, they will never purge the air out of the coolant system. Since air is easier to pump than water, there will be a bubble in there until filled to the max. The top most hose on the coolant reservoir is the purge. It looks like woven hose usually and if you follow it, it will go towards the r/f fender where it exits.

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Benzmac:
1987 16V
ASE CERTIFIED MASTER AUTO TECHNICIAN
SERVICE MANAGER FOR 14 BAY FACILITY
MERCEDES SPECIALIST 8 YRS
PARTNER IN MERCEDESSHOP.COM

Alain.....Be assured your comments about
Mercedes Benz not having a "quality" product
in the 90's in absolutely "on the money". I
too have loved these cars for over 20 years
and have owned maybe 10 MB during this time.
These include 240D, 300D, 300SD, 300SDL, and
recently, 350SDL. The 80's cars were far
superior, especially before 1986. After that, the decline started (in quality). Look
at the 350 SD/SDL. There was nothing but
trouble with these engines. My local MB dealer will NOT even sell one of these, no
matter how low the mileage. Why? Because I
was told they gave so much trouble. I owned
a 91 350SDL;nothing but trouble (head gasket,
bent rods, high oil usage). I sold it and
returned to a 300SD (dependable,well engineered). As you said, one must have owned these cars over the many years to be
objective in realizing the 90's products from
MB is a joke when one is looking for a trouble free well engineered machine. BTW, my
300SDL began "it's" troubles at only 62,000
miles;I bought it NEW.

Richard, unfortuneatly I hear and see stories like yours almost daily in my shop. I have many customers who have driven only Benzes for many,many years who are fed up and looking at other manufacturers. These people understand that cars are manmade products and they do require maintenance and they do occaissionally break. If they didn't,I'd have to find some other line of work. BUT, people are starting to get fed up with the major problems that they are having due (not to lack of service or neglect but) poor quality. And it is really NOT enjoyable as a tech, to have to tell people they need to spend thousands of dollars on problems that plague certain models when they break. The fact is ,the customer is usually mad...Mad because the thing broke in the first place....
Mad because their last Benz never had any of these type of failures and had much higher mileage....
Mad because it is sooo expensive to fix....
And mad because they bought a vehicle that is SUPPOSED to be built to much higher standards.
In the end,everyone loses. The customer loses all the money he threw into the thing.
The manufacturer loses a once loyal customer.
I lose a customer because I only work on MBZ vehicles.
I just hope things get better. A company with a great reputation for quality doesn't keep that reputation for long if they go around pissing off all of their customers.

Another Subject. Another Thought. If the customers old cars never had any of these problems, why did they get rid of it? Just food for thought.

Brian,

The original water pump assemble does not have bleeder screw. The new replacement water pump assemble comes with a new water outlet. The bleeder screw should be on top of the water outlet.

If you have an airlock condition, fill up the overflow container as much as you can while idling. Close the cap and drive the car for a while. Turn off the engine and check the water level after it is cool. Refill it and repeat steps above if necessary. In order to do this, the cooling system has to hold pressure first.

David

[This message has been edited by be459 (edited 09-10-1999).]

Alot of my customers drive their cars until they have the urge (desire) to have a newr (sometimes fancier) model. Usually the "old" benz ends up being handed down to one of the kids. The real goofy part is when you have a high school kid who is beating on an old 240D(for example) and the parents need to borrow it because their "new" car is in the shop.