The Brake Pad Debate -- the Ignored Angle - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

EricSilver · #16 05-12-2003, 11:35 AM

John,

First of all, your cars look spectaular! I can’t believe that is an 87 300E. From the photo, it appears to have a machined alloy rim which is probably a lot easier to clean than the stock 15-hole painted wheels.

Are those Bosch or Hella euros? And what do you use to polish & wax the car?

Eric

yal · #17 05-12-2003, 12:02 PM

Just wanted to give another solution to anyone who is tired of brake dust. I just had my front brakes replaced. New cylinder, new G stop brake lines (tirerack), ATE powerdisc rotors and PBR deluxe brake pads. Apart from the lines everything I got from fastlane.
I have been driving all weekend and there isn't a trace of dust from these pads, so far their even better than the Axxis deluxe plus I had on there with the old brake equipment. Which is weird because Axxis and PBR are now the same company

By the way what the steel brakelines have done to improve the braking is just amazing!

EricSilver · #18 05-12-2003, 12:52 PM

Greg,

I agree with you on secondary contamination of suspension, etc., and also the tires. For the first time in 2 years, I can read the lettering and see the shine on my front tires.

Eric

timreid · #19 05-12-2003, 01:42 PM

Eric, I decided to use the Axxis Metal Masters when I changed out my rotors at 66,350miles. I choose the Metal Masters since I live in the hills/mountains of WV and wanted to try a performance pad. I'm very satisfied with these pads, they have less dust (than OE) and it is easy to wash off, wear is great (30 thousand miles to date), rotors look good, and I've experience no noise. Some drivers may not like these pads due to the pedal feel, as Axxis states the operating friction, it is a harder pad, which translates into more pedal force, see http://www.axxisbrakes.com/technical.htm. Eric Axxis cleanliness pad is the Original Deluxe, but there’s not a significant difference when compared to the Metal Masters. I believe most MB drivers may prefer the Axxis Original Deluxe pad, because of the brake pedal feel, however I will use the Metal Masters again, a great pad, good choice Eric.
enjoy your drive, timreid

G-Benz · #20 05-12-2003, 03:31 PM

Two words...chrome rims!

While many of you detest the look, OEM brake dust is FAR easier to remove from chrome than alloy.

I like the "time management" angle, but I for one don't clean brake dust off rims during what should be productive daytime hours. And for the little effort it takes, I usually dutifully clean off the brake dust when I go over the car in the morning and/or evening.

Mornings are best, since I would otherwise be wasting time looking at my watch, tapping my foot and glaring at the upstairs window wondering when my wife will finally get down here!

jsmith · #21 05-12-2003, 06:21 PM

i installed PBR deluxe pads some time back. they are smoother than the OEM pads i had in and i always get compliments on how clean my wheels always are!

benzfan · #22 05-12-2003, 06:58 PM

About 7000km ago I put some metallic aftermarket pads on my c280 with new factory rotors. I apologize for forgetting the brand but they came highly recommended by a local performance shop. The verdict? They are without question the worst junk I have ever had on any car I have ever owned. My new rotors are warped to the point where I must replace them very soon. The pedal effort is WAY up over stock to the point of being frightening in some situations. I broke them in properly (I am no slouch when it comes to working on a vehicle and knowing how to deal with things like this). The original ones lasted over 160,000km with no problems. The new ones require warming before they will do anything at all, they fade badly when too hot, and the slightest whiff of moisture in the air will cause horrendous grinding for the first couple of stops after sitting for more than an hour as the rust or whatever has formed instantaneously on the pads wears off (the rotors are not the culprits here). I have owned Fiat, Alfa, BMW and Maserati among others and this is my second Benz. None of my previous vehicles ever felt this bad when braking, nor did this car before these pads. The best brakes I have ever felt bar none were the Stillen rotors with Mintex pads I had on my last Benz. I think I will call Bekkers this week and get some sent up. Boy was I disappointed with these whizbang pads the lowered Honda crowd recommended.

manny · #23 05-12-2003, 08:55 PM

benzfan

The answer to your problems is called:
Zimmerman cross drilled rotors & Mintex Red Box pads.
Works fantastic for me.

EricSilver · #24 05-13-2003, 11:55 AM

Benzfan,

Your comments make me recall another obvious factor: It is not only the pads, but the strength of the hydraulics behind them.

Your C280 braking system is, I assume, stronger than that in my 260E. A hard pad in a strong braking system would probably behave in the disappointing manner you describe because the pedal pressure you apply in your car puts greater relative force on your pads than the same pedal pressure would do in my car.

The strongest brakes I have experienced where in a 98 S500, with OEM pads. A light pedal touch would stop the car on a dime (almost). Metal Masters in that car would be excessive, and would probably warp and damage the rotors quickly, as you described. Because your Mintex pads are softer than the semi metallics such as Metal Masters, their behavior is thus within more acceptable operating parameters.

MAC10 · #25 05-13-2003, 02:06 PM

Having my own detail shop- I have a trick that I have passed on for brake dust problems-especially on MB's. It does not require changing pads or dust shields.

Try using a household 'dusting' product- which is basically wax- (I use Endust -the one that helps repell dust after applied). Make sure to clean the wheels first, then dry, and apply a good amount of dusting product to a cloth or carefully spray onto the rim in a circular motion, then polish dry. You will notice that the rim will be very smooth, dry and slippery.

It also helps cut down on accumlative brake dust and makes the dust that sticks easier to get off. Its similar to waxing your wheels but much faster and easier to do on a weekly basis when you have a few minutes.

EricSilver · #26 05-13-2003, 02:35 PM

MAC,

I'll be the wheels smell nice too.

In the same vein, here is a little something on brake squeal I pulled form a BMW forum when I was doing my research. Interesting, particularly the insult to Mercedes Owners:

===========

After using the CRC reddish orange brake goo, I found I still had brake squeal with new rotors and the metal masters brake pads. Upon examination the goo was on the pads correctly.

There is a product called "The Silencer" for curing brake pad squeal on the market. It is a large spray can, costs about $18.00 and is meant to be sprayed onto the rotors and brake pads. It's an aluminum oxide type of material that fills in the surface of the rotor and pads to make for a more complete grip.

At first the car felt like I had put grease on the rotors but after a week or so of driving the 'feel' became very nice, better than the Pagid's and with half the dust and NO SQUEAL at all, none, nada, kaput! No matter what situation I was in, the eerie sound of silence. No more scared looks from Ford Pinto owners in their rear view mirror, or upturned noses from those drug infested MBZ owners, no siree bob.

Jim Bob says 5+ stars for The Silencer, it's worth every penny.

=========================

Cute.

MAC10 · #27 05-13-2003, 03:25 PM

I consider myself a Mercedes guy through and through and although I will not argue that BMW makes a terrific product, I have always been annoyed somehow by many a BMW motorist. Until recently I just thought I was being a bit overly sensitive to the 'BMW Experience' and its place on the road. It all made much more sense the other day when I heard a recent study done by Boston University. The BU study researched rude, selfish,and aggresive driving behavior. In its conclusion the study found that BMW motorists were the worst in selfish behavior behind the wheel. Now, I wont draw any conclusions for you, nor will I agree Its every BMW owner, but It all made too much sense to me.

EricSilver · #28 05-13-2003, 05:43 PM

MAC,

And I bet the report would show that the smaller the car, the larger the ego and degree of selfishness.

With the possible exception of Volvo wagon drivers, BMW 3-series drivers are the most irritating folks in the world. The 5-series folks are less so, and I have never yet encountered a speed racer or otherwise obnoxious type in a 7-series. (They tend to be Mercedes-like in their politeness.

)

Perhaps, because like S600 drivers, they have nothing to prove. They are the kings of the road, and know it, thus no need for show-boating.

EricSilver · #29 06-02-2003, 10:30 PM

After a month, I have one word to sum up the performance of the Axxis Metal Masters:

Magnificent.

Wet or dry, hot or cold, they have clearly outperformed the Pagids.

My initial fears about having to use more brake pedal pressure were entirely wrong. Pressure is the same, but the braking effect is much greater. And, of course, no appreciable brake dust -- seems most of it flies off.

The only downside is that they have made me a bit overconfident when braking. Initially, I would let up on the brake pedal a bit at traffic lights to keep from cutting 10-20 feet off my normal stopping distance. Now I roll the extra 10/20 feet before applying the brakes.

Also, I am not seeing the dreaded rotor wear, but the rotors are going to outlast the pads anyway. Problem is, I want new slotted rotors, and now have to find a new justification for them.

Overall, I am very satisfied and would buy Metal Masters again.

haasman · #30 06-02-2003, 10:36 PM

I installed PBR deluxe pads on the 190E three weeks ago.

In three weeks there was less brake dust than after two days with whatever was in there before, I am guessing OEM pads.

They don't squeak, have a very smooth braking effect and work really well.

I recommend PBR deluxe pads.

Haasman

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