The Brake Pad Debate -- the Ignored Angle
 

Prior to replacing my brake pads this weekend, I read all the threads discussing/debating OEM organic versus aftermarket metallic pads. The key issues seemed to revolve around dust, rotor wear and stopping ability.

My decision to go with Axxis Metal Masters was based on a more fundamental question:

How much is your time worth?

The soft Pagids I just replaced were very effective at stopping the car, and easy on the rotors, but the dust they produced was absolutely horrendous, and destroyed the finish on my front wheels.

I recall, with zero fondness, spending at least an hour per week (during the warm months) scrubbing brake dust from my 15-hole rims, and the dismay at nonetheless losing the battle with the stuff that baked on, and could not be removed. I am not looking forward to doing that again this year, especially after I refinish my front wheels.

When I look at the countless hours involved in "brake dust management" versus the value of using those those same hours for doing business or other income-generating work, or pursuing creative endeavors, or spending time with loved ones, it makes perfect sense to buy low dust, maintenance-free semi metallic pads, even if it means spending $100 on a set of new rotors with each pad change. The time spent fighting dust simply is not worth it especially since the Metal Masters (and I suppose similar pads) offer such phenomenal stopping power, which I observed this weekend.

Before replacing your next set of pads, think of all the enjoyable and/or profitable things you could be doing with your time, then think of how it would feel to have to defer many of those because you need to spend hours with a brush cleaning dust from your wheels, and decide what makes the most sense.

===========

That being said, I should add that brake pad replacement is the easiest and fastest DIY job. However, the instructions in Shop Forum's DIY section to not apply to my car. I have the Girling 2-bolt calipers that flip up to expose the pads, so the process is a lot easier:

Remove brake fluid reservoir cap, stuff a rag at in the top, remove wheel, remove lower caliper bolt, loosen the top bolt, flip up the caliper, remove the used pads, insert the new pads, push back the piston within the caliper (use a large C-Clamp or similar), flip the caliper back down, replace the lower bolt, tighten the top bolt, replace the brake fluid reservoir cap, pump brake pedal until firm. That's it. Takes all of 10 minutes per wheel.

The only problem I had was with stuck lug bolts on one wheel -- all 5 of them would not budge with the stock lug wrench, even after drenching it with WD40 and Liquid Wrench. Once again, Home Depot plumbing dept. to the rescue :D I bought a
30 inch length of 3/4 inch diameter iron/steel pipe, placed it over the end of the wrench handle for added leverage, and the stuck bolts gave up with very little resistance. :cool:

Although I like the time-management angle, I would personally encourage other readers to stick with approved brake pads. Others on this list have reported creeping problems with brake fade and squealing with low-dust pads.

To me, having absolute confidence in my brakes being able to handle a panic stop without any problems is worth the extra effort of cleaning my wheels.

FWIW, the wheels on my car were neglected by the PO. I did take 2 or 3 hours getting them into shape. Now, it is literally a 10-minute (or less) proposition to KEEP them clean each week.

I recommend P21S gel wheel cleaner. Works wonders!

I personally still prefer the OEM pads for my car.

Also, the OEM pads are NOT organic, they are semi-metallic. They contain a higher amount of synthetic graphite which makes the brake dust blacker in color and more visible on your wheels. I have never used metal masters, so I cannot comment on how their performance measures up against the OEM pads.

Hi 400E,

The time management is also financial. In addition to myself, I am sure there are professionals in this forum who bill clients on an hourly basis and often work seven days per week. If you are billing $100+/hour, and have a choice of spending 2 hours cleaning dust from your wheels or using the same time to make money (particularly in this economy) the choice becomes obvious. The cost of new rotors, in the above case, equals one hour' work -- a very fair trade. (Imagine how great the fry chef at McDonalds would feel if he could get a set of rotors for an hous' work.)

I agree with you fundamentally on using OEM parts, but no matter what cleaning solution I used, the brake dust always won. And, in the aggregate, the cumulative cost of such materials costs about the same as a new set of rotors.

The squeal is more a factor of the pads' movement or vibration within the caliper, which will occur with any pad material. My Pagids went through their squeal phase in the beginning.

I would wager the creeping fade is more an issue of inadequate brake pedal pressure (to compensate for the harder pad material) than an inherent problem with the pads.

Curiously, these pads have the most bite when applying either feather-light pedal pressure, or pressing somewhat harder at normal street speeds. My ABS is activated under these conditions if the pavement is even marginally wet or sandy, which shows that the pads are doing their job in stopping the wheel.

However, in normal street driving, it feels I have hit a wall, so to speak, at pedal pressures that would drastically slow the car when I had my Pagid pads in. What I have to do is discipline myself to apply the extra bit of pedal pressure to compensate -- just as, when I first got my car, I had to discipline myself to apply more pressure to the stiff Mercedes accelerator pedal, in contrast to the "blow on me and I'll go" pedals in the Japanese and American cars I had driven previously. Now, because I am used to it, the pedal feels feather light. The same will happen with the brakes.

This is less work than dust mainenance and, on the plus side, forces me to be a more alert driver in situtations where alertness is important, i.e. stop and go, bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Hi Ali,

I noticed that when I removed the Pagids. By appearance and feel, they seemed no different than the Metal Masters. I suppose the actual metal content is higer, and/or the type of metal differs(?)

The key difference I have observed with the Metal Masters is the more solid feel through the pedal when braking, which creates the illusion that the pedal cannot be depressed any further. Apply a bit more pressure and they really bite. I believe that lack of adequate compensating pressure accounts for many anecdotal reports of fade. It would be interesting to see laboratory data on brake pad performance, which takes compensating factors for pad hardness/composition into account.

I don't expect overall performance to be any better than the OEM's. So far I have not noticed any difference at all, except when wet. I washed my car earlier, really soaping and soaking the wheels as I always do (except this time it will not be in vain. :) ) This has always dimished brake performance with the Pagids until the rotors dried, but the Metal Masters apparently ignored the soap and water and the brakes performed very well.

Then again, I have only had them on for a day, so it will be a while before I can speak with any degree of authority on this.

although i haven't tried myself....
 

have you thought about using those dust shields?as i say i haven't tried yet but i would think they could help you.once you have them clean try putting a coat of wax/polish on the rims.it may make cleanup easier.i use pagids and do them myself(more for the enjoyment than saving money) and the dust bothers me but i look at as the price to pay for having great brakes

Hey Daddio,

I considered dust shields at one time, but figured the dust would just accumulate in places behind it, i.e. the caliper. Plus, the 15 holes in my rims serve somewhat to cool the brakes and I would not want to block them.

The pads I have now -- Axxis Metal Masters -- are actually very good. I have been driving a lot this morning and afternoon, on highway, city and country roads, and they performed magnificently. What was great was getting out of the car after 100 miles or so to find my wheels as clean and shiny as they were after I washed them! Not a trace of dust. :sigh:

Having dirty wheels is the same as wearing a fine suit with a big gravy stain on the lapel. It simply does not look good, and makes the wearer look even worse -- particularly when there are easy solutions, i.e. eating more conscientiously in the case of the gravy stain, or driving more conscientiously in the case of the low-dust brakes.

Thing is, I am not having to adjust my driving style as I originally thought I would. Actually, I tell a lie; I am adjusting my style. Instead of braking harder into traffic lights, as I originally thought I would need to do, I am instead softening my touch. As I break the pads in, it seems I am slowing more quickly and stopping sooner than before. This was an unexpected, but very welcome surprise, and I am really becoming sold on these Axxis pads, despite my initial fears and concerns.

When I went on my first test drives after putting these pads on, I thought I had made a bad choice in buying them. After letting the pads settle in a while, during which time I imagine they had a chance to score the surface of the rotor, my opinion has changed and now I love them. Think of how you have to break in a new electric shaver, i.e. if you switch from a rotary to a linear type. For the first couple of days the new shaver does not work as well as the old one. But once your face gets used to it, it works very well. I would bet good money that a lot of people who dump their aftermarket pads do so before they have a chance to break in.

Eric,

I think it is likely that there is a higher metal content in the metal masters than the OEM pads. I have read other member's comments on the metal masters and there seem to be those that are satisifed with the metal master pads and their performance. Is there any noise with the metal masters, or are they as quiet as the OEM pads? I have also read plenty of praise for porterfield pads, I may decide tp give them a try next time it is time for a brake job, but we'll see.

Eric,
You are taking a very thoughtful approach to this issue! I may have to change my mind after all.

Please do keep us posted from time to time about how many miles you get out of your front pads and their performance over the long haul.

Steve

i run dust shields on all my benzes. 6.9, 560sel, 560sec.

would run them on my e320cab but they interfere.

will be running them on my s500c.

keep the wheels clean and i have noticed no dimishment of braking capabilities.

and i drive these cars hard.

FWIW, I use a 'California Duster' on my wheels every couple of days - the small sized one that is sold for cleaning the dashboard. It takes about 30-60 seconds per wheel, removes the black crud before it bakes on, and eliminates the problem for me with the stock pads (it also shines up the wheel nicely: The pointed end of the 'duster' is especially useful for the wheel holes and around the wheel rim). The duster lasts about 5-6 months before it is pitch black, and it can be washed once or twice before needing replacement.

After I wash and dry the car on the weekend, I spray and wipe the wheels with Mequiar's Final Detail, which shines up the wheels and seems to make them a bit more slippery. The dust doesn't seem to stick to the wheels as much after the spray. This takes another 1-2 minutes per wheel. And I wax the wheels when I wax the car, about once every 5-6 months. All told about 10-15 minutes per week is devoted to wheel care with this system, on a car that avgs about 250 miles per week of stop-and-go commuting.

Soon after purchasing my '73 350SLC twenty years ago, I replaced the brake pads. At the time my brother was able to get me some metal pads (Hardies) at a good price (in fact he got me 2 sets!). The rotors were fairly worn so I figured it would not matter if the pads damaged the rotors and I had to replace them, it was an opportunity to try the pads. I was impressed. The pads did not have quite the "bite" of the OEM pads but they were still more than sufficient to brake to the point of locking wheels even on good surfaces. Hot they resisted fade and remained strong. An added advantage was that they were fairly clean and the small amount of dust produced was a grey colour that did not show on the silver wheels. The fronts eventually wore out after 112,000km at which point the rears were still only half worn (yes, 112,000km)! What's more, the front rotors had only just worn to their minimum thickness at this this stage. I fitted new front rotors and the second set of front pads and they continue giving good performance to this day.

When we purchased our '90 300TE I wanted something to replace the filthy OEM pads. A friend in the brake business advised against metal pads (which I wanted following my good experience with my SLC) as he claimed my wife would not like the lack of bite of the metal pads. Unfortunately, the Hardies brand metal pads fitted to my SLC were no longer available. He supplied me with Bendix "Standards". They are very clean producing virtually no dust, however they have a low maximum temperature rating and with only a small amount of vigorous use will fade badly. I also feel they produce no more bite than the metals in the SLC, certainly less than OEM pads.

When I recently purchased my '90 190E, again I was looking for a solution to the filthy wheels (that I removed and spent many hours cleaning inside and out). The previous owner had fitted dust shields to the front wheels which at least keep the outside clean but the inside still gets filthy. The Bendix "Standards" are no longer available due to asbestos no longer being used. I have tried some Bendix "Euro Pack" but they seem as dirty as the OEM pads. I enquired with Bendix if they could recommend something cleaner that would still offer good performance. They claimed that none of the current range are as clean as the old "Standards" but their "Advance" are the next best and offer better resistance to fade than the old "Standards". They sell others including metal pads but claim that these are not as clean as the "Advance". I have yet to try these.

Despite my preference for OEM products, I cannot put up with the filty OEM pads. Not only do they leave wheels looking dirty but the dust contaminates the suspension and underbody and even leaves a black film along the lower panels of the car which can soil clothes. I like to keep our 300TE in showroom condition (it usually wins its class in concours despite being a daily driver) and now I want to bring my 190E up to similar condition. This is not possible in a daily driver with OEM brake pads.

2 things you can do for dust management:
* get the 8-hole wheels, which are easier to clean
* coat the wheels with carnauba wax, and use a cleaner that does not strip the wax.

Ali,

I have read some positive comments on the Metal Masters, as well as some negatives. (I believe they were even referred to as “cheap” in one thread.) I was hesitant to get them, and actually wanted the Axxis Deluxe Plus pads, which seemed to be getting universal praise, but the parts place I went to did not have them, thus the Metal Masters.

So far, they are silent. I used only brake paste on the backs. My calipers do not have spring plates or pins, so all pads will shift a bit within them. However, I am not hearing any sqeal or other noise.

The Porterfields sound great – I have read nothing but praise here and on other forums, but they are twice the cost of Metal Masters (I paid $60.00 for the set).

Eric

Steve,

I definitely will keep you all posted.

So far, my confidence in them is 100% -- had my first panic stop today and they performed better than OEM.

Rather than “breaking” them in I should say I am in the process of “burning” them in, since these are the first brakes I have ever been able to smell, although the smell is becoming weaker and weaker as the performance becomes stronger. (On my very first test drive, they actually generated some smoke.)

So far, I like them.

Eric

John,

First of all, your cars look spectaular! I can’t believe that is an 87 300E. From the photo, it appears to have a machined alloy rim which is probably a lot easier to clean than the stock 15-hole painted wheels.

Are those Bosch or Hella euros? And what do you use to polish & wax the car?

Eric

Just wanted to give another solution to anyone who is tired of brake dust. I just had my front brakes replaced. New cylinder, new G stop brake lines (tirerack), ATE powerdisc rotors and PBR deluxe brake pads. Apart from the lines everything I got from fastlane.
I have been driving all weekend and there isn't a trace of dust from these pads, so far their even better than the Axxis deluxe plus I had on there with the old brake equipment. Which is weird because Axxis and PBR are now the same company:confused:

By the way what the steel brakelines have done to improve the braking is just amazing!

Greg,

I agree with you on secondary contamination of suspension, etc., and also the tires. For the first time in 2 years, I can read the lettering and see the shine on my front tires.

Eric

Eric, I decided to use the Axxis Metal Masters when I changed out my rotors at 66,350miles. I choose the Metal Masters since I live in the hills/mountains of WV and wanted to try a performance pad. I'm very satisfied with these pads, they have less dust (than OE) and it is easy to wash off, wear is great (30 thousand miles to date), rotors look good, and I've experience no noise. Some drivers may not like these pads due to the pedal feel, as Axxis states the operating friction, it is a harder pad, which translates into more pedal force, see http://www.axxisbrakes.com/technical.htm. Eric Axxis cleanliness pad is the Original Deluxe, but there’s not a significant difference when compared to the Metal Masters. I believe most MB drivers may prefer the Axxis Original Deluxe pad, because of the brake pedal feel, however I will use the Metal Masters again, a great pad, good choice Eric.
enjoy your drive, timreid

Two words...chrome rims! :D

While many of you detest the look, OEM brake dust is FAR easier to remove from chrome than alloy.

I like the "time management" angle, but I for one don't clean brake dust off rims during what should be productive daytime hours. And for the little effort it takes, I usually dutifully clean off the brake dust when I go over the car in the morning and/or evening.

Mornings are best, since I would otherwise be wasting time looking at my watch, tapping my foot and glaring at the upstairs window wondering when my wife will finally get down here!;)

i installed PBR deluxe pads some time back. they are smoother than the OEM pads i had in and i always get compliments on how clean my wheels always are!

About 7000km ago I put some metallic aftermarket pads on my c280 with new factory rotors. I apologize for forgetting the brand but they came highly recommended by a local performance shop. The verdict? They are without question the worst junk I have ever had on any car I have ever owned. My new rotors are warped to the point where I must replace them very soon. The pedal effort is WAY up over stock to the point of being frightening in some situations. I broke them in properly (I am no slouch when it comes to working on a vehicle and knowing how to deal with things like this). The original ones lasted over 160,000km with no problems. The new ones require warming before they will do anything at all, they fade badly when too hot, and the slightest whiff of moisture in the air will cause horrendous grinding for the first couple of stops after sitting for more than an hour as the rust or whatever has formed instantaneously on the pads wears off (the rotors are not the culprits here). I have owned Fiat, Alfa, BMW and Maserati among others and this is my second Benz. None of my previous vehicles ever felt this bad when braking, nor did this car before these pads. The best brakes I have ever felt bar none were the Stillen rotors with Mintex pads I had on my last Benz. I think I will call Bekkers this week and get some sent up. Boy was I disappointed with these whizbang pads the lowered Honda crowd recommended.

benzfan

The answer to your problems is called:
Zimmerman cross drilled rotors & Mintex Red Box pads.
Works fantastic for me.;)

Benzfan,

Your comments make me recall another obvious factor: It is not only the pads, but the strength of the hydraulics behind them.

Your C280 braking system is, I assume, stronger than that in my 260E. A hard pad in a strong braking system would probably behave in the disappointing manner you describe because the pedal pressure you apply in your car puts greater relative force on your pads than the same pedal pressure would do in my car.

The strongest brakes I have experienced where in a 98 S500, with OEM pads. A light pedal touch would stop the car on a dime (almost). Metal Masters in that car would be excessive, and would probably warp and damage the rotors quickly, as you described. Because your Mintex pads are softer than the semi metallics such as Metal Masters, their behavior is thus within more acceptable operating parameters.

dust problems
 

Having my own detail shop- I have a trick that I have passed on for brake dust problems-especially on MB's. It does not require changing pads or dust shields.

Try using a household 'dusting' product- which is basically wax- (I use Endust -the one that helps repell dust after applied). Make sure to clean the wheels first, then dry, and apply a good amount of dusting product to a cloth or carefully spray onto the rim in a circular motion, then polish dry. You will notice that the rim will be very smooth, dry and slippery.

It also helps cut down on accumlative brake dust and makes the dust that sticks easier to get off. Its similar to waxing your wheels but much faster and easier to do on a weekly basis when you have a few minutes.

MAC,

I'll be the wheels smell nice too. :D

In the same vein, here is a little something on brake squeal I pulled form a BMW forum when I was doing my research. Interesting, particularly the insult to Mercedes Owners:

===========

After using the CRC reddish orange brake goo, I found I still had brake squeal with new rotors and the metal masters brake pads. Upon examination the goo was on the pads correctly.

There is a product called "The Silencer" for curing brake pad squeal on the market. It is a large spray can, costs about $18.00 and is meant to be sprayed onto the rotors and brake pads. It's an aluminum oxide type of material that fills in the surface of the rotor and pads to make for a more complete grip.

At first the car felt like I had put grease on the rotors but after a week or so of driving the 'feel' became very nice, better than the Pagid's and with half the dust and NO SQUEAL at all, none, nada, kaput! No matter what situation I was in, the eerie sound of silence. No more scared looks from Ford Pinto owners in their rear view mirror, or upturned noses from those drug infested MBZ owners, no siree bob.

Jim Bob says 5+ stars for The Silencer, it's worth every penny.

=========================

Cute. :rolleyes:

bmw-my turn
 

I consider myself a Mercedes guy through and through and although I will not argue that BMW makes a terrific product, I have always been annoyed somehow by many a BMW motorist. Until recently I just thought I was being a bit overly sensitive to the 'BMW Experience' and its place on the road. It all made much more sense the other day when I heard a recent study done by Boston University. The BU study researched rude, selfish,and aggresive driving behavior. In its conclusion the study found that BMW motorists were the worst in selfish behavior behind the wheel. Now, I wont draw any conclusions for you, nor will I agree Its every BMW owner, but It all made too much sense to me.

MAC,

And I bet the report would show that the smaller the car, the larger the ego and degree of selfishness.

With the possible exception of Volvo wagon drivers, BMW 3-series drivers are the most irritating folks in the world. The 5-series folks are less so, and I have never yet encountered a speed racer or otherwise obnoxious type in a 7-series. (They tend to be Mercedes-like in their politeness. :) )

Perhaps, because like S600 drivers, they have nothing to prove. They are the kings of the road, and know it, thus no need for show-boating.

One Month Later....
 

After a month, I have one word to sum up the performance of the Axxis Metal Masters:

Magnificent.

Wet or dry, hot or cold, they have clearly outperformed the Pagids.

My initial fears about having to use more brake pedal pressure were entirely wrong. Pressure is the same, but the braking effect is much greater. And, of course, no appreciable brake dust -- seems most of it flies off. :)

The only downside is that they have made me a bit overconfident when braking. Initially, I would let up on the brake pedal a bit at traffic lights to keep from cutting 10-20 feet off my normal stopping distance. Now I roll the extra 10/20 feet before applying the brakes.

Also, I am not seeing the dreaded rotor wear, but the rotors are going to outlast the pads anyway. Problem is, I want new slotted rotors, and now have to find a new justification for them. :rolleyes:

Overall, I am very satisfied and would buy Metal Masters again.

Recommend PBR deluxe pads
 

I installed PBR deluxe pads on the 190E three weeks ago.

In three weeks there was less brake dust than after two days with whatever was in there before, I am guessing OEM pads.

They don't squeak, have a very smooth braking effect and work really well.

I recommend PBR deluxe pads.

Haasman

Timreid,

I missed your comments the first time around.

I agree with all you said. Interestingly, pedal pressure seems to become a non-issue once the pads seat themselves. My rotors are OK, except the groove pattern is different now.

And to think I almost bought Bendix.... pads :eek:

My last pad change was to Axxis Metalmasters, about a year and a half ago. No squeal at all, great stopping, and hardly any dust to speak of -- just a brown haze after about a week.

I'll never use the OEM pads again. :D

VirgniaDude, that makes sense. Especially when you can get a set of Balo rotors (which they have here in Fast Lane) for $25.00 on EBay and other online resources.

Why not refinish the wheels to a dark grey color -- similar to the almost black MB "Anthracite"?

Two Month Check-in
 

It's been over two months since installing the Metal Masters. So far, they continue to perform exceptionally well.

An issue that arose in the past few days was squealing -- Loudly -- during low speed braking. Turns out that I did not use enough of that red CRC rubbery backing goop to keep the pads from moving in the calipers. (I have the Girling calipers with no spring plate, pins, or anything to keep the pads from moving. They just float in the caliper, and can clunk or clack at times when braking from forward to reverse.)

I removed them, scaped off the old goop, added some new. Then I attached the shims that came with the pads, added more goop on top of that, and replaced the pads, which are now in there nice and tight -- and should become even more snug as the CRC stuff swells. We'll see.

EricSilver, how have the Metal Masters been on dust? The combination I have of original alloys and OEM pads has me intensely interested in this question!
Also--does anyone know whether the comment about Girling calipers and clunks on reverse braking applies to the '89 560SL also?

Drilled and pad
 

I like the four cross-drilled rotors on the 300E. They work well, no cracking and the only negative is a little light swishing sound when applying the brakes.

I definitely would consider then again. I would also consider looking into slotted rotors.

As far as brake pads: I am SHOCKED at how little brake dust comes from the PBR Deluxe pads on the 190. They have excellent performance, no squeal. I highly recommend them.

Haasman

cbdo,

Dust has been a non-issue; just a brown haze that washes right off. No problems with baking-in.

Since the squeal began, however, I have noticed the dusting seemed to be a bit darker and heavier, which I attrribute to the pads' vibration. Now that they are secured again, I expect that to stop. I'll report back to confirm this in a week or so.

While not dust-free, please try the "yellow-box" Textar pads, which is the "European" MB OEM composition.

IMHO, less dust than the USA or Textar Pagid's, great stopping power cold, and good fade resistance especially under HEAVY repeated use (I use them on the big-track of Willow Springs, going 125 MPH down the front straight, no fade), and fairly easy on the rotors.

The Textar's come with circumferential (sp?) dampening pads. I also re-fit the stainless-steel shims that originally came with the pads and use either MB brake grease or Permatex synthetic/green brake grease between the shim and pad, and the shim and pistons, and I've never had brake squeal.

Check our EPS/Randy's brake pad site here:

http://www.epsparts.com/category/chassisnumbertable/

Excerpt:
Brake Pad Brands, Compounds and Technical Information

Table of Contents:

1. Orignal Mercedes Brake Pads
Textar Ate Pagid Jurid
2. Aftermarket Brands
PBR / Axxis / Repco Mintex
3. Technical Information
Brake Squeal Coefficient of Friction
4. Brake Safety and Instillation Tips

:-) neil
1988 360TE AMG
1993 500E

I have Textar yellows in both my parent's Benzes, the first one getting the Textar treatment was my soon-to be ride, a 1986 420SEL with Bendix calipers and ATE discs up front, and Lucas-Girling calipers clamping OE discs with OE Textar pads. The pedal feel was just GREAT, solid and responsive after break in(my dad just followed a bus to break the pads in), and i use AGS sil-glyde grease, no squeal except for the backs. My mom's 380SL was next, it got new Balo rotors on all four corners, with Textar yellows up front, PBR Deluxe(PBR/Axxis/Repco/Lucas pads are made by Bendix Mintex Pty, LTD in Australia, fyi), and after having my power-hungry friend do a break-in, the pedal feel was incredible. I slapped on a set of Raybestos QS ceramic pads on my mom's Nissan Quest, Raybestos "claims" that they are low dusting, but they are just as bad as the OE TRW or the Bendix semi-metallics that were on there before. Too bad the Americans suck at the art of making brake pads, only the Europeans and the Australians know the fine are of making friction.

Also forgot to say:
Eagle One A2Z wheel cleaner or Simple Green is your friend.

Re: Drilled and pad
 

They are great aren't they?:) I was so impressed I took out my rear pads and I now have PBR deluxe all round.

I agree that you will probably not get additional performance from a x-drilled rotor, and your correct that they will get hot faster. However you can surface them, and they do cool faster in terms of degrees per minute than a solid rotor.