E320 Stalls After Idling For 15 Minutes
 

This is 97 e320 (13000miles) had been in accident air bags deployed, no phisical demage to engine.

I just received my obd II scanner .
I read the codes: PASS NO CODES

There is no check engine light comming on.


I just replaced 3 resistor ends on the 3 ignition coils.

I replaced the air mass flow sensor.

I removed the old spark plugs champion c11ycc, they were all with black charcoal on their tips.


I installed the spark plugs Bosch super f8dc4 gap 0.34.

I started the car and it started running rough and backfire and while it was running I disconnected the plug from cam positioning sensor and also from idle stabilizer for a few seconds .

After about a minute or 2 the car started to run super smooth like a swiss watch.

It was running for about 5 minutes temperature 85C, I pressed the accelerator a bit but started very rough and from that moment on was getting worse and worse while idling and then it stalled.I could not get it started again , it looks like it is flooded,

The next day I started the car again and again rough for 1 or 2 minutes than super smooth like a new car for about 15-20 minutes and rough again and then stalled, could not start it again.

While the car is running smooth and I touch the gas pedal it starts rough backfire and stalls.

I did not check fuel pressure yet, only opened the valve on the fuel rail to see if there is fuel , it is comming like from water house.

I removed the vacuum line from fuel pressure regulator to see if it is leaking , it is not leaking.

I appreciate all the help I can get to get my car running and driving.

Thanks allot

Could my problem be something wrong with the
Fuel?
Ignition?
Ccomputer?
or something alse?

Thanks for your help

I would guess you have a bad mass air sensor or a bad throttle actuator.

It could be the wiring harness going bad like M104s do, but I think that MB had the problem solved by '97 (?).

bad mass air sensor ?

I have replaced this one, but there are no codes comming up on the scanner

The wiring problem I read was e320 93-95 , I could be wrong

Could this be the fuel pressure regulator?

Am I on the right track with the fuel pressure regulator?

Thank you very much for any help

Its always best to start with basics and fuel pressure is most basic. Fuel pressure problems can be intermittant also.

After you have proven fuel pressure one way or the other, the next step is to identify what is changing. Throttle angle, timing, injection pulse width, integrator, actual mixture, O2 sensor value. Look to those things and find what is changing when it runs bad.

Thanks stevebfl

I will check the fuel pressure thirst and let you know the results

I just checked the fuel pressure today
The tester maybe not the most accurate but this is what I got today

51.5 psi at idle
60 psi with vacuum hose removed from fuel pressure regulator
42.5psi after engine was off and climbed to 58psi within 30 minutes

Does that sound normal?

I still can not drive the car

Any hel appreiated

Are you saying the car is not running now?

I guess I need a refresher on the symptoms. From the original post I thought this to be a time dependant reoccuring happening. If instead it has degenerated into a continuous condition that isn't fuel pressure related, one needs to tell if the injectors are openning and if the ignition is firing. You might look at a spark plug and see if it is fuel soaked.

If it were a plain no start I would also be sure of your key. Try another.

No the car does not run
When I start the car it runs rough for 1 or 2 minutes than super smooth like a new car for about 15-20 minutes and rough again and then stalls, could not start it again for possibly hours.
Does not drive
when pressing on gas pedal backfires and stalls.

Is there something in Mercedes like it is in a Ford that after an accident the car is not possible to start.

When I checked the old spark plugs they were black only I don't think they were soaked.

Thank you for help

If the car doesn't drive what does it do for 20 minutes smoothly. If it only idles what happens when you put it in gear, what happens when you try to drive off?

If the accident had messed with the security system it wouldn't start at all. it could have affected other things. Does the fuel pressure stay constant when it goes from running smoothly to not at all.

Whe trying to drive off it drives as long as I do not press the gas pedal.

I did not check the fuel pressure to see the moment when going from running smooth to stalling I hope to do this this evening and let you know

Thank you

Hi,
Sounds like your car is stuck in Limp home mode, runs smooth until you accellerate then it backfires...just as mine. I should try to find all the reasons why the computer chooses Limp mode, help anyone?, and start eliminating items.
L.

Hi

The fuel preassure does not change when car starts to stall

When I remove 1,2 or 3 injector wires counting from the front of the engoine the car starts to run better but still does not drive.

Is it something with fuel?

ignition coils?

computer?

dashbord .? ( it says display defective with a picture of a radiator between the 2 words)?

wrong car?

the car was in an accident.!

dealer only?

i appretiate your help

Thank you

Unfortunately we are like the three blind men and the elephant without some data.

You probably need to see someone who can look at actual values and see whats happening. Without hooking my scanner to the car I never know on a 96/97 E320 whether I am dealing with HFM or ME fuel systems. I would worry about the throttle assy and all cables and/or linkage.

Thanks stevebfl

I think it would be cheaper for me to buy you a ticket to come to Canada and connect your scanner than going to the Mercedes dealer here, but I will probably have to tow my car there and see what is the problem.

I finally made an appointment with MB dealer for diagnosis of the problem.

How long should my appointment be for.?

Dealer tells me 1 hour minimum and than what ever it takes longer to find the problem.

Your help greatly appreciated!

I suspect the fuel relay... could have been jarred or the circuit board may have cracked during accident.

Pull the relay... remove the cover and examine closely the solder joints where the pins of the little contact points are mounted on the board. These little units are relatively heavy for the printed board because they contain an electromagnet. The solder can and often does crack where the pins are soldered to the board.

If so, solution is to resolder the pin to the board.

I would love to take a look at the fuel relay but I do not know where is it located in my car and what is the part number?

Thank you

On my 300E it is located behind the battery and covered by a removable plastic panel... at the fire wall. My unit is about the size of a pack of cigarettes and has the word "Kickdown" written on it.

My car is 1997 and has only 13,000 miles, probably different place

My car is in the MB shop today, they spent one hour but did not find anything, no fault codes.
They will try to do more testing tomorrow, I will let you know what they find.
How much time should it take to find what is the problem (if mechanic know what he is doing)

Thank you

If its what I say in above post... they may never find it because it will not show up in the fault codes if the cracks are making contact at the time of the test. It usually takes a temperature change in the ambient temperature for the metal to expand and lose contact... usually as you are driving down the interstate or in the church driveway with another 100 cars in the parking lot behind you waiting for you get the car going again.

:)

Hallo to everybody

I just got a word from MB dealer ant they say that the main computer ECM is not good according to their tests.

Do you think it is possible ?

Should I buy a new one or used one?

I will let you know the part # later whem I pick up the papers.

Thank you

Also can the computer be reprogrammed or fixed somehow?

Thank you

People that fix controllers call them "rebuilt". There is one really good source for "rebuilt" MB controllers. That place is Beckman Technologies in Durham NC.

Many of MB's controller fixes are just software modifications, because of this rebuilders can make a very good product. Unlike BMW or the rest of the world, MB makes one buy a new controller (up to 2002 when they started "flash" programming controllers) to get new software.

There is a very important issue that is not technical in your question. THe standard diagnostics of automotive controllers does not allow for absolute judgement on these issues. A tech working on a problem will often get to the point of "substitutting know good controller" to confirm diagnossis. Anyone paying for such diagnosis and then finding it not to be so needs to proceed with diagnostics. For those only dealing with this as a consumer it becomes hard to understand.

I do diagnostics for other shops almost daily. In many cases I have the "know good controller" and can finish the diagnosis. In other cases I call the shop and give them my diagnosis at that point. They have two options. The initially cheapest option would be to buy their own controller and finish the fix. The second option is for them to pay me for the fix. Seams easy right. Not quite, if I buy the controller and find it not to be the problem I proceed with diagnostics to the final fix and they pay whatever it took but not the controller. If they decide to do the fix themselves then they own a controller.

The point here is that at the point you are at, you are only paying for testing and a concept that appears next in testing. if you wish to proceed on yout own then pay your bill and take the risk. There is no warrantee on testing. If you accept testing as diagnosis and let them finish they should warrantee everything including their diagnopsis.

Hi Steve

Did I understand you corectly?

My controler can be reflashed with new software by the company you mentioned or can not be reflashed?

If yes, what is the cost of doing so?

I found many controllers at junk jards starting $125 up to $600.

Have you seen many of this controllers go bad? ( my car was in accident only 13000 miles)?

Thank you

Controllers built after sometime in 2002 can be flash repriogrammed in the field as new software fixes become available. BMW has been doing this for years and GM has been doing it for even more years.

MB makes one buy a whole new controller to do the software fix. Many including some on this board have burned the new software fixes into the 36k chips that store the programming. This probably is not the kind on problem you are having with your co9ntroller. If its software needs fixing it is broken software I don't think there are any specific software fixes in your area.

Your controller is also married to DAS and can't be moved from car to car. If you get a junk yard controller rebuilders can repair that problem.

Here are the diagnistic results from MB dealer:

Checked fuel pressure

Over voltage from boosting?

Swapped coils

Swapped air flow meter

Checked throtle operation w/ HHT

Engine misfiring

No faulsts in ME

All points to computer, this is what the dealer says


Here is the info from the printout from the dealer:

HHT PRINTOUT
03.07.03
Status 02/03

ME2
MB NUMBER: 023 545 24 32
Diag ident: 4/05
no faults stored

ETS
MB NUMBER: 019 545 47 32
Diag ident: 1/03
no faulsts stored

EGS
MB NUMBER: 020 545 88 32
Diag ident: 0/00
no faults stored

IFZ
MB NUMBER: 210 820 53 26
Diag ident: 1/03
no faults stored

IFZ
MB NUMBER: 210 820 32 26
Diag ident: 0/00
no faults stored

SKF (?)
MB NUMBER: 210 820 39 26
Diag ident:0/01
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

KFB
MB NUMBER: 210 820 39 26
Diag ident: 0/01
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

PSE
MB NUMBER: 210 800 06 48
Diag ident: 0/00
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

ATA
MB NUMBER: 210 800 06 48
Diag ident: 0/00
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

ESV1
MB NUMBER: 210 820 19 26
Diag ident: 0/01
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

ESV2
MB NUMBER: 210 800 19 26
Diag ident: 0/01
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

ESL
MB NUMBER: 210 820 39 26
Diag ident: 0/01
B1011 Voltage supply Overvoltage

KI
MB NUMBER: 210 540 57 47
Diag ident: 0/02
B1755 Serial interface K2 from Auto AC/Tempmatic control module to instrument cluster
(this one probably because no freon in the system)

KLA
MB NUMBER: 210 830 22 85
Diag ident: 2/04
no faults stored

Is it really the computer that is gone?
Dealer says 80% is the computer (more than $2000 CAD) even if I buy and it turns out that it is not the problem they say I would still have to pay for it.


Please help

Greatly appreciated

I belive in you guys.

Please help

if the dealer says its an 80% chance and you have all the risk. You are in the wrong shop. A dealer/tech needs to stand behind such testing even though getting the odds any better than 80% is probably unrealistic.

Let me try to tell you why. First as I said there is no way to test the controller except as to end function. Just because the final output is wrong doesn't necessarily mean it is software or hardware related.

The way it works in the shop is that a tech using standard procedures and good logic starts to think he has a controller problem. he hypothisizes logical testing and in an hour or so he has the sheet you posted and the 80% answer. Now he could do a couple more hours testing and get the risk factor to 85%, now he could do 4-5 hours more testing (if he is smart enough and has the techniques) and he might achieve 88% risk factor. If you understand that labor has value (by the hour) then the smart tech does the least amount of testing that gives the highest initial risk factor. Then HE (the shop) takes the risk. He wins by charging more time than it takes and having judged the odds correctly. Since there is no amount of testing that assures the absolute answer some amount of this technique has to take place.

If the shop can't live with the level of risk they can establish then they shift the risk to you and the level of testing all of a sudden doesn't matter to the tech/shop.

I really don't know what to tell you if you can't find a shop that takes responsibility for their diagnostics. My main job in my shop with 8 technicians is establishing risk and taking it!! My techs can do so to a point but high dollar controllers always await my deciding when we are going to take the risk. I tell the customer that testing says this and I need that much approval. if I'm wrong we now have a "known good controller" for the next time. If I'm right the customer has spent the least amount necessary to get their problem repaired.

If they think at some point that they wish to use my data from testing to take the risk I bill for the testing and am done. NO warrantee till the job is complete. And no parts paid for that aren't needed!

Steve

I like your approach how you deal with customers and how you take the risk if necessary.

They called me yesterday and said that possibly it is not the computer.

They partially disconnected the crank positioning sensor and the car runs better , they suspect it might be something wrong there.

Is it possible that my cranc positioniong sensor is the problem?


I am in a dificult situation because here we only have one MB dealer and I do not know any other mechanic that has the equipment to connect the round plug to my car for diagnostics.

Is it possible that my problem has something to do with the lack of air bags in front ?

Thank you

Please give me some answears

I had a similar problem with my '98 E320. Search using my login name to find the thread about my stalling problem. It ended up being the knock sensor. I saw no DTCs with a simple scanner, but my mechanic caught it with his scanner after several visits. He also contacted a MB factory rep. about the problem. The MB rep. said that they are seeing more knock sensors fail on the older w210s.

I'm no mechanic, so I imagine I'm only confusing the issue for you.

Thank you benzthere

I will mention this to the mechanics at the MB dealer.
Your car was driving but mine does not drive yet

Ya lost me, with the airbag question.

There is no airbags in my car , would it have anything to do with my car not running or driving or it absolutely nothing to do with the air bags?

Does it sound like crank sensor problem?

Does it sound like knock sensor problem?

My car still does not drive and backfires stalls after pressing on gas

Problem solved

You will not belive what was the problem.

They found moisture in the crankshaft positioning sensor, I am a happy camper.

The car is like new with only 13000 miles.

Thank you to everybody that helped or tried to help.
Greatly appreciated.

Hopfully one day I can help somone.