With all due respect...
 

MB's made after the W126 are all crap! I was heart broken to find out the next generation flagship, which I call "the slab job" because it is so damn ugly(almost as ugly as the BMW745i) was so expensive to maintain and so unreliable. My next car is going to be a 2000 750iL. At least if I have to fix it, I will have the pleasure of driving one of the best V12 cars out there. I met a guy recently in a gas station with a V12 600SEL who said he spent $17K in ONE year on the motor. Have you seen the interior of those 750 iL cars? They go like hell and corner like they are on rails. BTW, those little puddle jumpers might be "called MB" but, as Enzo Ferrari remarked when asked about the Ferrari Dino- " a Ferrari is a 12 cylinder car" and those puddle jumpers are NOT MB's. Sorry.

Not just my opinion, check this out...
 

Whatever.

Sixto
95 S420
91 300SE
87 300SDL
83 300SD

MErcedes won second place in that comparison and had the benefit of being described as the "thug" of the group with its acceleration and muscle, winning hands-down in the power department.

The BMW has nearly 50/50 weight distribution(50.1front/49.9 rear). Anyone who has driven a 50/50 car knows what that means on a twisting road. Secondly, the BMW stops 15 feet shorter from 60 to zero. In a panic stop 15 feet represents the difference between disaster and safety. I thought Mercedes was into safety. Guess I was wrong! And by the way what makes it worse, is that the BMW weighs 460 lbs. MORE than the Mercedes and STILL stops 15 feet shorter. What kind of engineeering is this? Maybe that accounts for the slightly faster zero to sixty times? Paring 460 lbs. should make it no contest. This SAFE (4597 lbs. car) still goes zero to sixty in roughly 6.7 seconds. When I was a kid, that was fast for a hot Corvette with 327 "fuelie" engine with stiff 4.11 gears. Hardly any muscle car could top this acceleration back then. So in conclusion, what kind of engineering is it that can't get the edge with nearly 500 lbs. less weight? That's why I am choosing the BMW. I have no choice, I want the BEST looking car with the best interior that is safe, fast, has fabulous brakes, a sexy V12 and doesn't look like a stodgy old man's car even though I am 60 because I feel like 45

Great8, Thanks for the update - good luck in your future non-MB endeavors. Let us know how your BMW drives with 250,000 miles on it. We'll still be here.

Oh, I forgot, that the BMW is basically a 10 year old design which is still better than the next generation MB! Technically, the new 745 runs circles around the new MB. Too bad it is the ugliest car ever. Looks like a Mazda. I finally strike it rich and can afford the best and have to buy a used car because MB or BMW doesn't make anything I want to drive. What is this world coming to?

My neighbor has one that just passed my car(mine has 258K). He says the only thing he noticed was the power was down a bit. He was told by the dealer recently, at 300k he should consider a new engine and tranny if the loss of power bothers him. Any car that can be as reliable as my old W126 is good enough for me! I don't mind buying a new engine every 300k or so. In fact, I already have a good used 100k engine and perfect transmission for my W126 if I need it waiting patiently. The truth is, he has done far less repairs on his car than I have and I have been extremely fortunate. I didn't want to get into that but that is the other reason I chose BMW. His tranny doesn't even leak yet. Sorry I can't say the same.

With all due respect, if you are going to troll, try to learn how to post in the correct category. I fail to see how your post fits in to the "tech help" category.

With all good BS some of it is just that.

The 2000 750iL is not ten year old technology. It is at most 2-5 year technology. if you wish a display of servicing such technology try to get someone to work on a ten year old 750il. There isn't a more unpopular car to diagnose than the early 12cyl. Dealer techs will run if one comes in the door.

I personally drive a E39 540i. I do that because it is twice the driving car of a 750iboat. Faster stops, handling is no comparison.

I will probably sell my BMW this year as the model is changing and its financially right. I will probably try a v8 "E" class as I'm not into boats of any Marque. Service doesn't matter to me as my company pays the bills (and does the work of course), but both my ownership and my shop experience says that repairs on the similar cars: C versus E46, E versus E39 and S versus E38/65 will have the BMW in the shop more and costing lots more.

When I bought my BMW I planned to keep it 6 months. I had just gottem BMW diagnostic software and wanted a "guinny pig". I have loved the car but it sure ain't a MB when it comes to service.

Great8,

I have to say how surprised I am by the amount of time you've elected to spend here posting over and over (and over) about the comparitive greatness of the BMW 7 series over the Mercedes S class. If you want to drive the BMW, then drive the BMW, I'm sure it is a fine automobile. I'll just be interested to see how satisfied you are with the overall experience after living with the baffling "iDrive" system for a month or two. From what I hear, numerous 7 series owners have been back at the BMW store trying to unload the car because the iDrive system prevents them from enjoying the driving experience.

Jonathan

I initially responded because of the post about people getting the wrong idea about Mercedes needing all these repairs. I've read enough posts to know that's not true! Unfortunately I clicked on the wrong button when I was attempting to REPLY to that particular post which I didn't initiate.
I find it ironic that Steveblf, one of the most respected techs on this site drives a BMW 5 series. I remember a post where he bragged about how great his BMW 5 series was. Steve, I was referring to the 2000 750iL- not the early ones. As far as diagnosis and repair, I have hit the jackpot and no longer care about fixing my own car or how much it will cost, thank goodness. Working on this W126 cured me forever about working on my own car. I am not a fan of ANY German car company. Unfortunately American car companies have thrown in the towel. As far as choosing to drive a boat, I have been rear ended so many times while stopped at a traffic light with serious injury the final outcome, I no longer consider any car that is not big and heavy a prudent choice personally. So I try to choose big heavy cars that are also fun to drive and am willing to settle for 10% less overall performance in favor of creature comforts and luxury. And last but not least, if MB weren't crap, there would not have been the need for that individual to express concern about how many people perceive MB as needing so much repairs.

"With all due respect...": >>> >> > Open Discussion

Great8,

It sounds like you have done a great deal of research. I'm sure you would not have made such a blatant and specific statement without lots of scientific data.

So, how about sharing the data from which you base this statement.

Have a great day,

Enough already!

Great8, if you hate Benz that much, then go drive your BMW and leave us the hell alone. OTOH, if you would like to participate in a constructive dialogue comparing and contrasting the two marques, it might prove to be very interesting.

The rest of you, please don't encourage this crap by responding to trolls.

Sounds to me like someone is overcompensating...

This is pretty common in the Porsche ranks. The 911 guys are pretty snobby when it comes to their model, and don't consider any other model a "real" Porsche. The one thing I always thought funny was when some fellow in his lightly modified 914 2.0 would lap some fop in his late model 911.

I think the same is true of the BMW vs. Mercedes debate. Though they compete in the market, the cars have different characters that appeal to different, well, characters. The BMW tends to be biased towards the sports end, and service requirements tend to sports-car-ish. The Mercedes hits a middle ground. Now, that said, I have yet to meet more than a few BMW drivers that have the capability of exploring, let alone enjoying, the high limits of their sports-sedan. They are mostly bench-racing windbags.

And bragging about your bank account is not the way to win friends. I know plenty of folks with plenty of money, and not one of them is "not concerned" with what things cost. They own expensive things, but didn't get to be well-off by being stupid. They still want value for their dollar, and don't respect people that don't.

Thankfully for us mere mortal, that foppish crowd is moving on from German sedans to Rig-pigish SUV's. I have noticed quite a few late model 540i's, E430's and the like for REALLY low prices. Hhhmmm...

The E38 750iL is a beautiful car...I hope you the best...if you have time, plz come back and visit!

Well G8 certainly exposed one weakness!

Why do we get so possesive and protective towards MB (Or BMW) for that matter?

We have voted where it counts - $$$$ (or in my case ££££).
Surely we are members of this forum to help each other out not to act as unpaid marketeers for any manufacturer ( now if MB said forum members could have 70% discount on parts that would be entirely different - and I would be the first to challenge G8 to a duel).

In the meantime there is nowt wrong with a bit of jousting - albeit, in the General Discussion forum!!

Actually I'm surprised that Enzo Ferrari would make such a statement being that the Dino was named after his son, who was of ill health and died quite young.

I would do your homework on the 750il (check the BMW forums) - though a fine car in its own right, I seem to observe that ANY V12 is not cheap to keep running. That being said, there's nothing quilte like the sound of a finely tuned V12!

As former King of England (I chose to abdicate to be with my commoner wife, Julia Roberts) and owner of Microsoft (Bill Gates just fronts for me), I've been privileged to drive all of the finest automotive vehicles. Since the track that we had built on the yacht is only a 1/4 mile oval (we did have to accommodate the ballroom after all, and still fit through THE canal) I have been unable to put in many of my usual 200+ mph laps, but , as Mario, Sterling and I were saying the other day in St. Bart's, those MB's certainly perform well for a passenger car. My '84 300SD (I only have it to identify with the common man) actually lapped Gunther's Testarosa the other day (such fun).

Well, I have to go change the oil now....oops.ahh..hem...haw..I don't care about money... honest.. I use Mobil 1.

Shakespeare said" I think thou dust protest too much"
 

Let this be my last word on the subject. First of all I AM a Mercedes owner and have been for the last 260k miles. I don't own a BMW. I erroneously replied to what I believed was a blatant false statement- that people should not get the false impression that MB cars are troublesome and unreliable. Well they are! And getting worse with the introduction of each new model. Just read the posts for the last 6 months, and decide for yourself. If you want to judge engineering, fix every damn thing that goes wrong with your S class all these years as I have done.
I have a strong automotive and mechanical backround- having been a heavy diesel mechanic, automatic transmission rebuilder from turbo 400 to Allison heavy trucks. When I was young, some 40 years ago, I used to build race engines for Penske Racing in PA. on the weekends. Mark Donahue, the race car driver who died, built me a special suspension for one of my cars that outperformed a 911 Turbo carrera on twisty roads in PA. In return, I built him a custom CHEVY motor that he put in a special Camaro, shortly before he died and gave it to Aronoway(the fellow who developed the Cigarette boats in Florida for a 100k boat. In my spare time, I built custom cars for people from the ground up if they had enough money including a custom body(first car was an exact replica of the Ford GT40). I took classes on suspension design at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor with with a fellow, Dave McClellan who later headed up Corvette division when Zora Arkus Duntov left. He found my ideas so helpful that he sent me a $1,000 set of stainless steel shocks GM used at their proving ground to design the Corvette suspension because they came apart and had 100 interchangeable valves, etc. The point is
I know cars. Though these days, I am only interested in driving what I believe is an excellent car- the 750iL. If you check the web site I posted at the beginning, you'll see I am not alone. And finally, I was in Italy picking up 48 IDA Weber carbs at the factory when I read in the paper the quote by Enzo Ferrari. He said it!

Hi jbaj007

Or your lordship - whatever.

A real devilish contribution there ( number of posts 666!)
;)

JSlabotsky,

Yep, you're right, definitely a troll.

Have a great day,

"I met a guy recently at a gas station"??? Get a life!!!