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  #16  
Old 07-25-2003, 11:16 PM
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Zhandax,

It is running a lot better. It starts right away. However, to be honest, I also did change the spark plugs, rotor and distributor cap so...it may be a combination of things. NO leaks so far. I may change the oil and filter within the next 100 miles.
No speeding tickets because I am respect the speeding limits... bla, bla, bla...:p
Since this was my first time doing a MB head, it took me a good 4-6 hours disassembled the head. The lower front cover added another 4-6 hours. Reassembly is a lot faster since you know where things go. Another 6 hours. I guess Larry is about right.
Neumman (a local forum member) helped me a lot. I would recommend you get somebodys help, even if they are not familiar with MB's and don't try this without the manuals.
The machine shop turn around was about three days.
By the way, I am not a pro by any means, just an enthusiastic DIY'er.
Good luck!
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  #17  
Old 07-26-2003, 01:46 PM
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For those of you interested...

It has been about 400 miles since the valve/head job. I just checked the oil. No external leaks and the oil dip stick has not moved...
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2003, 10:28 AM
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I'd love to do the same thing on my 2.3 8vlv, the head is smaller then the 2.6, but I have never done anything like this before. I got the manual and everthing the only thing I worry about is that there is some shop tricks that I am not aware of and I might screw everything up because of this.

I know that I saw a friend of mine who has owned his shop for the past eight years spray the head gasket with something, but I don't know what it was. I am guessing it was one of those gasket maker things, I don't see why he would do that but then again this was on a two year old neon that just blew up.

The main reason I want to do this is because when my timing chain as replaced, the edge of the tensioner blade, the new one, cracked and now the engine whines. It has not affected anything other then the economy gauge that goes up when the car is stopped and in gear, but I'm not sure if this is related, I would like to have a quiet running engine again though.

Since this is a big job anyway, maybe I should wait a bit save some money and get the head rebuilt at the same time. As far as I can tell the engine is now into it's 150000km mark, it does not burn oil, starts every time, and is well taken care of. Leaks a bit of oil from the rear seal. It also idles very smooth but has an ocassional hickup every now and then, not something serious as far as I can tell.

It's just the whinning.

Would you guys say that I should put in the hours to get just the tensioner blade replaced, or should I wait and get the head done at the same time. Although being a student, this might not happen for a year or two, tensioner blade I can afford, a head job is a bit different.

xp
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2003, 10:19 PM
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Heres my 2 cents I was there and I am glad we used the bar and lift method. I certainly could have manhandled the head with the cam and rockers in place but why? It was much smoother to remove this way. It was a good 50 plus pounds but also bulky and awkward to hold onto. Not many places to get a grip.

It was both of ours first Mercedes head removal job and the finesse method worked great for us. I had to work the next day and a slip up in a lift or a dropped head would have ruined both of us for the next day


The exhaust manifold looks great in person

Those are my new balance shoes in the pics.



'
QUOTE]Originally posted by LarryBible
The head weighs no more than 30 pounds or so. If you leave the exhaust manifolds, cam, rockers, etc on the head, then it does indeed weigh alot.

That said, the manifolds, cam, rockers, etc must come off before going to the machine shop anyway. Also, at least for me, these parts are easier to remove from the head with the head in place. The bare aluminum head is as light as a feather.

Thus my question regarding using a hoist to remove the head. Even with all that stuff on the head, I would use Gregs method in spite of the fact that I have a walking beam with a chain hoist running down the middle of my shop with a balancing apparatus hanging on it at the ready at all times. It's just quicker and easier to manhandle a head, any head than it is to mess around with a chain hoist.

BTW good job on your engine work!

Have a great day,
[/QUOTE]
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2003, 10:26 PM
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neumann, you don't post much, but I always think of Jerry Seinfeld's reaction to Wayne Knight when I see your name

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  #21  
Old 07-28-2003, 08:37 AM
LarryBible
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sixto,

I think of the same thing, you know, NNnneumann!

neumann,

First of all I am not making fun of your name, I am just laughing along with sixto about how Seinfeld says it. I hope you don't take any offense at this.

With manifolds, cam and rockers in place I would expect the assembly to weigh well over 100 pounds. I have never found a machine shop that was very anxious to disassemble and assemble a head to the extent that J. Hidalgo describes. I personally would not want to let them do it even if they offered.

The typical auto machinist is just that, a machinist. Removing and replacing such pieces is not what they do best.

My preference for removing and replacing manifolds, cam and rockers while the head is tied to the engine is because the head will run all over the work bench while trying to do this. In addition removing these components turns the head into a feather to allow quick removal and more careful placement onto the deck of the engine.

Each to his own with their method here, but I wouldn't even dream of removing and replacing the head with all those components attached. I also wouldn't dream of leaving this work to a machinist and I have a really competent machinist.

My $0.02,
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  #22  
Old 07-28-2003, 09:36 PM
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Larry,

Point taken regarding removing everything from the head (making it lighter) while it is still attached to the block. It just means leaning over the engine bay for longer rather than standing upright at a bench to dismantle the head.

At reassembly time, what is your opinion, and the opinion of others, as to when the camshaft should be torqued down, before or after the head bolts are torqued? On the advice of my father-in-law (ex tech.), I torqued the cam down after the head bolts. He argued that if the cam is torqued down first it may become stressed by any slight movement when the head is torqued down. Any opinions? Does it really matter? Three years on our 300TE is still perfect since I did the head on it. We have just returned from a 2,600km holiday in it where it used no oil and returned 10.5 litres per 100km (27 miles per imperial gallon, don't know what that is in M.P.US.G) loaded with family and luggage.

Greg
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  #23  
Old 07-28-2003, 11:24 PM
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Larry,

I would not dream of taking the head apart myself (unless I had to) and the manual does not mention dissasembling the head in place. Although, we already know that what the manuals shows is not always the best way to do things or the quickest
Besides, the typical machinist has assembled and disassembled more heads than I have (which is none). Therefore, I did let him do mine.
Your method worked for you and my method worked for me. I think we just have different dreams.
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  #24  
Old 07-28-2003, 11:31 PM
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I think what you guys need to do is to come to my house, J.Hidalgo -- Neumann -- LarryBible, and do the same to my car. What I'll do is stand beside you and video the whole thing, then post it in the DIY section as a RealVideo.

Just trying to do my part.

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  #25  
Old 07-29-2003, 12:12 AM
Manya
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I'll have Before/After shots of my head/valve job somtime later this week. I had a backyrad mechanic do it for me, since I don't posess the tools to do it.
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  #26  
Old 07-29-2003, 07:33 AM
zhandax
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I am with JH on this one...any one of those guys at the machine shop has taken apart more heads than I have.

Manya,
You are an Australian with a nice paint job! My first Benz was a Euro 66 250S, and the picture of yours brings back fond memories.


brookspw,
you might check out USA Motor and Machine on Cleveland, right off Murfreesboro Road. They do the head work for MB of Nashville, the BMW head work for ********, and did mine.
They will take your assembled head, do their work and give it back reassembled just like JH had his guy do. I even learned the 'double-clicking a torque wrench trick' from watching one of their guys.
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  #27  
Old 07-29-2003, 08:36 AM
LarryBible
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Yes, they have "taken apart" a zillion heads, but that means REMOVING VALVES, SPRINGS, KEEPERS AND RETAINERS, then grinding the valves, seats and putting those parts back together. I have never seen a shop where they are anxious to do any of the other parts.

Disassembling, assembling these parts on a bench is a pain because the head wants to scoot around. On the engine it is tied solidly in place.

There are many really good machine shops that do valve jobs on Chevies, Fords, Toyotas and who knows what all day long, but rarely see a M103 head. If you don't know to tighten all the cam journals down gradually and tighten one before the others you will strip the soft aluminum bolt holes in the head, and you can even break a camshaft. Many machinists would NOT know this. Again, they are machinists, they grind valves and seats for a living, they don't do mechanical work. THAT IS NOT THEIR EXPERTISE. I have one of the best machinists in Texas and trust him to the "inth" degree with machine work, but I'll do the mechanical work to know that it's done right, thank you very much.

THERE IS ONE MORE IMPORTANT REASON FOR REMOVING AND REPLACING THE CAM WITH HEAD IN PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If the cam is in place, some of the valves will be open and subject to damage while putting the head into proper position. With the cam OUT of the head, all valves are closed. Additionally if you carelessly try to turn the engine while the head is in place to time the camshaft, you can bend valves.

I suppose everyone just thinks I talk to hear my head rattle. There are REASONS for doing things a particular way!

Have a great day,
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  #28  
Old 07-29-2003, 10:10 AM
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If they offer the service in their shop then they are doing it for a living. Every automotive machine shop I've ever been to do has been filled with "gear heads"...they bled 10w-30 and drank atf instead of coffee in the morning. I guess it takes time to shop around and get a feel for the shops. This was my first Mercedes cylinder head assistance but but no means my first cylinder head job. An aluminum head is an aluminum head. All the shops I've used all offered to disassemble and reassemble. I've used shops in Ohio, Arizona, South Carolina. None yet in Florida.

Theres a difference between a machine shop and an automotive machine shop. My family has had relatives in the machine shop business for many, many years. My father was a tool and die maker for the Big 3. Their shops were not automotive machine shops. They built the tools for the assembly lines that made the cars
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  #29  
Old 07-29-2003, 11:48 AM
LarryBible
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Whatever.

Have a great day,
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  #30  
Old 07-29-2003, 11:58 AM
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Larry,


You provide great advice but others also have opinions and experiences. You're statements like "whatever" seem somewhat out of place. Should your advice be taking like something right out of the "bible". Sorry, couldn't resist If I had a nickel for every time someone made a "neumann seinfeld" reference I would be driving a new SL

Seriously though, you offered good advice on the topic but others had had success with the opposite method you so staunchly supported. There are many good shops out there who are capable of multi tasking. Maybe your part of Texas is lacking.






Quote:
Originally posted by LarryBible
Whatever.

Have a great day,
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