*update* to rapid brake pad wear in '03 E320 (10k miles) need help dealing w/ dealer
 

After taking the advice of the techs here, I did not bother to service the brakes on the car. It was taken the dealer. Just got a phone call from the dealer and it appears the rear pads are worn and causing the indicator lamp to turn on. The car was NOT driven with the parking brake on. That would be my first indication of rapid rear brake pad wear. However, the service advisor explained it that "the car was driven hard, and if the brake system detects rapid acceleration, it will apply the rear brakes."

I don't buy this excuse and I'm certainly not accelerating or driving the car hard. This is not my race car nor spirited weekend car. I already have an S2000 for that.

So what do I do? Eat the cost of the rear brake pad service and wait for it to happen again? I like to say I don't have the experience or knowledge to be called a mechanic but I'm no fool when it comes to the mechanics of a car.

TIA
-ardy

:confused:

I am not sure if your car has ASR or whatever they might call it where it brakes the driveline.

But I do know that my little brother changes his brake pads every 10k miles in the front, but not the back. I think usually you go through two to three sets of front pads to one set of rear pads.

I havent had a car with ASR so I dont know. Ask one of the 500E guys. Doing brake pads is easy, you can do it yourself.

Also, the parking brake has parking break shoes inside the rotor disc, the brake pads are a separate system working on the same disc. If you took the wheel off youd know what I am talking about.

The amber triangle flashes on earlier models when traction control is activated. It is usually accompanied by a chunking in the rear wheels as the offending wheels brakes are applied.

I need to keep an eye on the average mgh but so far it hasn't been abnormal. Something abnormal is the amount of dust and the grooves (lip at edge of each rotor) in all four rotors after 10,000 miles. The car was never driven hard, the tires are proof to that, they are wearing evenly and the shoulders aren't scrubbed. Foot wasn't on brake while driving. I can only deduce that the system is not performing properly and there's no way I can prove it.

-ardy

very good idea, I guess I'll go do some donuts in a field? lol...

The only explanation for the (REAR) pads being worn down are
either a SBC malfunction which may be hard to prove or diagnose
or the ASR function of ESP is kicking in, constantly trying to stop
spining rear wheels. Which is super hard on the pads.
I have seen lots of cars with higher HP or 4-matic in our area
that eat up rear pads during the rainy season in record time.
I had a client with a ML55 that used it for skiing. He did a bunch of snow and ice driving and the ETS was constantly trying to stop those rear wheels from slipping, needless to say we replaced the
rear pads at only 5500 miles.
His rear wheels were much darker from all the dust.
Being that your car has less than 12,000 miles and needs rear pads, If it were on my rack I would attack it as a malfunctioning
SBC system.
If you did drive like a maniac, your front pads would be toast long before the rears.
Driving with the parking brake on would just smoke the parking brake shoes, not the pads.
I would suggest you make NOISE to your MB Center about this issue and request this be fixed as well as replacing the rear brakes no charge.
Good luck
DR.D

I would assume Dr D would back me up on this:
Wear items under the new car warranty, such as brakes, wipers, bulbs, etc usually have a 12 month/12,000 mile special warranty coverage. It should take care of the brake pads if you are within those limits, and the dealer isn't claiming "vehicle abuse", (and if they are, I'd ask how they are coming to that conclusion). Your word against theirs, and you say the tires look good. You should be covered, but you really need an answer to why this happened to begin with. They are NOT obligated to replace them again in 10,000, just ONCE.

Gilly

Gilly and DR.DIESEL,

Don't these cars have a system to "dry" the pads and rotors by applying the brakes lightly when they detect wetness? I am not sure how this system works, or if it can work with only the rear pads, but if it is malfunctioning, I guess nearly anything is possible. In any case, I would think the car's performance would be suffering if you were driving around with the brakes lightly applied all the time.

vapors2k,

If you put the car in neutral and let it coast after getting up some speed, does the car coast or does it slow down a little faster than you would expect?

I agree you need to find out what the problem is, and I do not think it is confined to needing new pads. Good luck, Jim

The operation of (I believe it's called) Dry Stop is dependent on the operation of the wipers. It's not constant, it operates the brakes vry slightly and I believe the interval is every 20(?) minutes? I could look it up. It's a very very slight application, and is all 4 wheels.

Gilly

I think I had better look after the cars I have now as I'm not sure that I would ever want to update to any of the new models with electrohydraulic brakes, especially after reading of issues involved with changing the pads and the problem described here. I also was unimpressed with the pedal feel at lower speeds in the new E500 I had for an extended test drive.

That's nothing, you should hear about the brake fluid flushing procedure and recalibration afterwards. Whew! And they still expect it to be done every 2 years.

I just remembered the rotor-drying thing that SBC does is called "Dry Braking", I was thinking of "Soft Stop" before, which MB describes as a feature which eliminates the "annoying jerk" at the end of the stop. Last time I tried it the annoying jerk was still in the right seat when i came to a stop.

Gilly

Gilly,

Now that would be a feature even I would pay extra for! Jim

I will perform this to see if the car slows down too much. thnx!

*UPDATE*

When I put the car into neutral, the speed goes down normally, not abruptly as if the brakes were engaged. Whatever was wrong has apparently been fixed. I forgot to mention that after the car was serviced for the pad indicator light, the car has been a little quicker and seems as though those rear pads were dragging. How do I prove it? I don't think I can, and I had to eat the cost of the pads and labor ~ $220.00. :mad:

They should be able to get it under warranty under the 12 month/12,000 mile coverage. I'd complain!

Gilly

did they replace the rotors, maybe they were warped?

Any warpage to the rotor at all I'm sure he would have felt. Anything significant enough to cause rapid wear to the pads probably would result in a tow-in situation-intolerable shaking.
To me it's strange that there wasn't a heavy accumulation of brake dust-something doesn't make sense here.
Still, I wouldn't let the dealer get away with charging him for it, that just bothers me. Most wear items are covered for a year or 12,000 miles, as long as there is no evidence of vehicle abuse, and a good set of rear tires is evidence enough of no vehicle abuse. How else they gonna prove vehicle abuse resulting in worn out rear pads? I would THINK someone at MB would be interested in this problem, but don't know how you would get there interest. Someone at the dealer should call the MB TAC about it.

Gilly

nope, no rotor warpage. I know how that feels. There was A LOT of dust accumulation on both front and rear, but the rear pads had thrown the indicator lamp, not the fronts. I was dissapointed that they didn't investigate further into the matter. Who do I contact about it? What number? It bothers me that I got stiffed with the bill and I don't want to go into the dealer raising hell, I'm not like that and it's their job to know more about the car than I and their job to investigate a problem such as mine.

-ardy

Tough one to know who to call exactly, as you may or may not know, until recently I was a dealer tech.
I'd say what needs to be done is that you need to speak to the Zone Manager for your area. The easiest source for this info would be the dealer, assuming they cooperate. Often the salesman who sold you the car may be the most eager to help, as the salesman will realize that your satisfaction depends on matters like this, and may be actually more helpful than the service dept in getting it resolved. The salesman wants to sell you another car in a few years, it's hard to get the service department to think that way.
If you have no luck at the dealer, you could try the 1 800 For Mercedes number and ask if they can get you in touch with the appropriate Zone Manager for your area.
If they ask if you want to talk to the District Sales Manager or the Service and Parts Operations Manager, I'd say the slaes and parts guy (SPOM), but either of them should be able to help.
In the meantime, look over your warranty book and see if it says anything about this 12 month/12,000 mile warranty for wear items like belt, hoses, bulbs, brake pads, stuff like that. I still think you can get them to give the money back for the brakes, that wasn't right, at least not if you are under 12month, 12,000 miles.

Gilly

Thank you Gilly for the advice. I'll start making calls and post up the results.

-ardy

the brakes!
 

How could that dealer in laguna say,your too agressive, if that was the case,you would be going through the fronts way before rears. you would see that tration light coming on all the time if you were trying to light up the rerar tyres. If anything. you tell them you want a goodwill set of rear brakes pad,our dealers can do that a 1 time only. You ask for them to keep the pads. Have them inspected, I see uneven wear on our rear padsl all the time . As for the newer cars nlot as much.The inboard pad could have say 9mm pad thickness including the backing plate while the outside pad has like 11-12mm of pad thickness remaining. just today I was checking my brake on my 500E @ home. The right rears inside pad almost touhcing brake pad sensor,the outside pad was more than half the thickness. I think due to alot of uneven wear you see today. I think we should still have 4 sensors for each wheel like our old chasis, it was more accurate. But that just my preference. i'm sure if the SBC was malfunctioning, it should raise some kinda flag on the cluster,or the tech that is doing the service,should do a short test to determine the condition. Thats what I have to say

What has happened to MB's warranty? On my 1998 automobile there was a "wear and tear" coverage period that covered EVERYTHING, including wiper blades, brake pads/discs, etc. It covered those parts regardless of owner usage, excepting track use.

From the MB Canada site:

WEAR AND TEAR PERIOD
The following parts listed are covered for wear and tear during the first 24 months or 40,000 km whichever comes first.

BRAKE PADS, BRAKE DISCS, BRAKE PAD WEAR SENSORS, HEADLAMP WIPER BLADE (129), REAR WINDOW WIPER BLADE REFILLS ON STATION-WAGON, WINDSHIELD WIPER BLADE REFILLS AND LIGHT BULBS.

On a related topic, I was talking to a Fed Ex mechanic a couple of days ago and he said that their new Mercedes Sprinter vans are going thru brakes and rotors like crazy. It was their main complaint about the vehicle. Perhaps there is a similar problem.

the brakes of life
 

No those FED EX do not have advance braking system, like sesnotronic brakes in our passengers cars. I m sure there just ocnvetional tape abs/bas system. Plust the upper class cars come with sbc braking,from the new E classes,SL's and so on.

My dad had a C320 which among numerous other problems had abnormal brake / rotor wera as well. In less than 5,000 miles the rotors had a significant lip on the front rotor and a few grooves starting to form as well. The dealer tried to convince my dad that this was normal for the car. He eventually got MB to buy the car back at foull price and got a E320 instead. For the most part he is happy with this car but he is taking them to court on the E320 as well.

I said for the most part :)

He got the specialo addition version that came with 17" wheels but the spare he got was a 16" so he had to take them to court for that because they were unwilling to provide him with the correct size spare. He is also unsatisfied with the seats. The car has about 7k on it and the seat bottoms are already wrinkled. He does not feel that a $48k car should have wrinkled seats with only 7k on the odo.

He won the wheel but he is still fighting for the seats.