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  #16  
Old 08-10-2003, 03:13 PM
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Since the motor runs, the relationship between cams and crank must basically be right.

The marks on the cam gears aren't on the gears but are on the washers behind them. They can be put on 180 deg different but that isn't likely the problem.

Since the cams only move 90deg when the crank moves 180, switching the cam markings 180 would take the crank 360. I have seen it happen a number of times where one cam was installed 180 out due to the washer thing.

Looks to me like the crank gear must be on wrong.

The original question was in reguard to chain stretch and I can't go along with what was attempted to verify stretch. The marks on the cams and stands are suitable for getting the gear on correctly as each gear is 18 degrees. They are not accurate for gauging precise cam timing nor stretch even if they were accurate. They might give a qualitative view if one knew exactly where the gears lined up when the chain was new, but the wear on the gears is not fixed when the chain only is replaced.

The proper method of gauging cam timing is with a dial indicator off valve movement. The indicator is set upon the valve retainer and the engine spun until 2mm of valve movement has taken place. At this point the degrees are read off the crank and compared to a standard in the TDM (Technical data manual).

When such a measurement has been made an old chain often has 10-14degrees of retard on the right cam. A new chain probably will only get it back to 3-5deg due to gear wear.

Offset woodruf keys allow this to be corrected to less than two degrees.
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Continental Imports
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  #17  
Old 08-10-2003, 07:49 PM
sms sms is offline
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If I'm not replacing the chain and just doing the guides and the tensioner, do I have to have the marks on the cams in alignment to replace the tensioner?

Steve


PS. Someone told me that there was a tension side and slack side to the chain and that this had to be considered before the tensioner was installed?
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2003, 11:08 PM
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You will have to remoe the gears to replace the rails. The engine does not have to move but beginning reference points should be established just in case something doesn't turn out.

The tentioner is no big deal. After the motor has been turned by hand (in the proper direction) the tention is on the right side of the motor. If you spin it backwards (which you shouldn't do) all the slack will not be where the tentioner is an getting it in place will be more difficult. A large screw driver pushing the tentioning rail takes care of it in any case.
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  #19  
Old 08-11-2003, 04:34 PM
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I guess there's only one conclusion to make about my situation. If the cam marks and distributor rotor are all in agreement, then the 180 deg that the balancer reads must be wrong. I'll check it tonight.

What I don't understand is if the balancer is off 180 deg how does the EZL unit still work? Isn't it seeing that pin on the damper at the wrong time?
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2003, 05:56 PM
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The sensor on the front is just for diagnostics (rpm and timing). The ignition is made off of the flywheel.
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  #21  
Old 08-12-2003, 02:52 PM
sms sms is offline
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I checked the crank and it seems to be on right. After all it's key on and then the (6) bolt pattern has (1) bolt slighty off so that you can only put it on one way. So if its not the cam and its not the crank that are off, what else could it be????

Steve
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2003, 08:59 AM
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Are you sure you are looking at the right marks?

I did what what you are doing a few months back and had the passenger valve cover off to check for stretch. I rotated the motor by hand until the cam marks lined up and to my surprise, the 180 mark was staring me in the face. After a few seconds of panic, I rotated the rest of the half turn and another cam mark appeared and lined up exactly on 0.

The balancer is impossible to put on wrong unless you re-drill a new hole-so that's not likely to be the problem.

Good luck.

J. Boggs
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  #23  
Old 10-30-2003, 08:14 PM
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Question Compressor bracket bolts--where???

SMS,
Just sent an e-mail to you. Have removed all the bolts i can find on my 560, bracket won't budge. Got the two allens on the side, the one behind the hydraulic pump, the two bolts at the oil pan bracket, and the compressor is removed from the bracket. What am i missing??? Do you recall any other bolts? Thanks.
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2003, 12:31 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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chasing goblins

I know that this has been discussed in other posts, but it bears repeating. When things just do not make any sense, there is always the possibility that someone has buggered up the works with a less than professional attempt at fixing something else in the past that leaves you stumped. If the timing marks on the cams and the distributor just do not match up with what the crank indicates, then no, they are not aligned properly if the engine runs. Why don't you check the "truth" of the crank timing by pulling the #1 plug, and cranking the engine till it blows your finger off the hole? When it does, you know that you are at TDC on #1, you should also see the cam lobes fully released from the valve stems. If the cam gear is aligned with the timing mark, then distributor is at #1, then the crank mark MUST be at or near 10 in your case. If it is not then someone has messed with the allignment of the timing mark.
Be methodical and don't assume that it can run even if what you see appears mucked up. You have a problem that once fixed, will clear the haze.
Good luck!
antwan
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