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  #1  
Old 08-23-2003, 02:02 PM
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Steve or Benzmac, and anyone else:Help: Parts ID on 450 SEL

Guys:

Have 77 450 SEL German spec model pristine with only 64K.

However:

One of my evident fuel delivery system parts got a broken hose over weekend, and I need to repalce. Evenb upon visiual inspection, local MB parts guy was at a loss. Tried to sell me an injector, which it isn,t.

This has Bosch part no. on it:

0280-150-036 on one side ofmyellow plastic part in middle, and number 086 on other side.

On yellow plastic ring base in middle is: 451.

Part is about 4 inches long, largely metal, heavy, and is last item fitted between main left fuel hose and metal hose which then goes into (not out of) fuel distributor. It sits right on top of front end of engine (M117). Rear end goes easily into the long fuel hose, and front end of housing has a built-in short (2-inch) hose which goes into metal receptacle leading to line into fuel distributor. It is NOT and injector!!!!

Seems that the short hose end is securely fastened into the item. The item has an electrical connector. I unhooked the wire plug before removal. And plugged the end of fuel line feeding it.

What happened: due to age and Florida heat, the short end of hose cracked and started leaking gas. Before that, was brittle. And I think I was slowly losing engine performance from it's loss of pressure, etc.

Questions:

1. What is this part?

2. Where can I get it?

3. How much?

4. And do you think the hose's slow cracking impeded on engine eprformance?

5. Also: Can short hose end be at all separated from the unit, and replaced (how), so that I don't have to replace entire thing?

this is of course a K-tronic system.

Your quick answers will be most appreciated, since I need to get mobile again.

thanks!!!!!

Last edited by bobboyer5; 08-23-2003 at 10:06 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-23-2003, 10:06 PM
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Please, anyone out there, some help!!!!!!!!!!
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  #3  
Old 08-23-2003, 10:41 PM
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Is it possible to take a picture of it. If not, I suggest you take the car to the dealer. Ask the parts guy to come out to see what your're taking about and he can go from there. I am prettu sure If you take a picture of the part, you will get an answer.
Meza
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  #4  
Old 08-23-2003, 11:00 PM
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I think you're talking about either:
1. The frequency valve
2. The warmup regulator

The frequency part looks similar to an injector (shapewise). From what I remember on a BMW with the Bosch K-Jetronic system (I believe your system is KE Jetronic since you have an O2 sensor). This sensor has a fuel line that goes to the warmup regulator. They don't usually go bad (by the way, does it buzz? If the part buzzes loud when you turn the switch on then it is the frequency valve). The warmup regulator does go bad quite often and it is $$$.
Again, take a picture if you can.
Meza
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  #5  
Old 08-24-2003, 08:14 AM
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Can't takepicture at moment. thanks for giving it a shot.

****But still: based on my description and looking attheir engine compartment, anyone with '77 4.5 M117 engine will know immediately what it is.

i'll wait for that person. Please.

thanks!!
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  #6  
Old 08-24-2003, 11:23 AM
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It seems to me that number is the number for an EFI injector (this is from memory as I am at home).

It is my guess that it was used to fashion a frequency valve as Meza says. The euro model wouldn't have had a frequency valve and probably had it added as a emissions modification.
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  #7  
Old 08-24-2003, 03:49 PM
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Steve: a couple of follow-ups!!

Could be that you're right.

But why, then, does this heavy piece have an electrical connection on it?

I thought injectors do not have electrical connections on them. This one comes from yellow plastic area in middle of the heavy black metal unit. Far end by fuel line has an injector like ending, with short needle showing and no opening (I don't know how gas gets in, but it does). Other end is plastic hose permanently connected to unit through a metal-like swivel. Cannot be removed. And this went into connector to 2 lines leading solely to distributor unit. Not to injector rails directly.

Does this help?

Also, if you think this was an add-on to a Euro car, can I try just connecting fuel line properly to the nozzle and forgo the device? What about the electrical connection?


thanks so much. You've always been a knowledgeable source for me, and the parts guy at MB was insisting it was an injector.
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  #8  
Old 08-24-2003, 04:37 PM
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0 280 150 036 translates to 000 078 34 23, which is a Mercedes V8 EFI fuel injection nozzle.

Ron
http://germanstar.net
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  #9  
Old 08-24-2003, 09:21 PM
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Germanstar or Steve:

My followup questions are:

If this indeed was an afterthought addition to my German spec M117 engine and added to fashion a frequency valve which car didn't originally have, perhaps as an emissions control item, can Iforget about replacing it and just hook up the fuel line?

Secondly, and this is real important, what's the best kind of easily available fuel line hose that I can go get at auto supply store for purpose? Is their conventional fuel line hosing suficient?

Thirdly, if as euro model my emissions control was an add-on feature, what would change in eprformance without this makeshift " frequency regulator" be?

fourth, will there be enough pressure in line to warmup regulator whatever if I disgard the unit?

Last but not least: If there was any clogging at all in lines that this lead to, will I blow out hose per chance due to backup presure?

thanks. Need this info quick, as i'm going to reconnect hose tomorrow morning.
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Old 08-24-2003, 10:05 PM
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PS: 6th question (Steve; Benzmac; Germanstar): Electrical:

****Oops...forgot an essential issue: Electrical.

If I just bypass where this add-on was and reconnect fuel line direct, so there is no frequency involved, and revert back to continuous mechanical as car was designed, am I screwing up the elecrically stimulated firing? Remember: there was an electrical lead to this extra injector used as an in-line advance frewquency valve. This wiring goes to back of firewall, then joins with another, and disappears.

Coincidentally, when I had air cleaner assembly off, I notice that a line from alternator to top of engine (with 4-pronged plug at end) was only half-depressed in. so I naturally pushed it back in. Of course, haven';t started car since gas leak.

My question is: Did the extra wiring evidently put in when car was converted to US specs change firing sequence? I doubt it, but I need your input before I simply replace hose and hook-up line.

And again, what type hose would you suggest?

thanks!!!!
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  #11  
Old 08-25-2003, 08:58 AM
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Follow the wiring. If this was a modification you will find a small box somewhere that controls it. It really doesn't matter what you do with it as its only affect is through the add-on frequency valve. The wiring won't be part of the original harnesses.

As to the valve, you CAN NOT just bypass the injector. This would dump all the control pressure. Look at the piping and realize that the idea was to dump a controlled amount of control pressure into the fuel return. The fuel return is at the fuel distributer. The best solution is to remove the rig. Another solution would be to securely plug the line (NO fuel flow).
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  #12  
Old 08-25-2003, 09:09 AM
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Steve: Urgent followup!!!

Steve:

If I just plug the lines at both ends, quesions:

1. What should I buy to securely plug both ends?

2. In plugging the two ends, am I not destroying the fuel return aspect of the system?

thanks.
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  #13  
Old 08-25-2003, 11:20 AM
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You need someone who understands what is in each line to decide whether what is there is what I say. I can't tell you how to plug the lines as I don't know how they are constructed.

The system I describe is a by-pass to fuel return of an important control pressure. You do not want this to happen so removing it is the way to do it. Plugging it is a temp repair. Safety is of the essence!
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  #14  
Old 08-25-2003, 07:21 PM
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to: Steve

Steve:

I plugged both lines, using short hose sections at each end.

fuel system performance improved markedly. In that pressure was clearly up.

As the day progressed, I monitored the plugs. No leaks and no vapor smell, apart from the minimal gas that had leaked out earlier. Idle seems a bit quieter and amoother. Is that possible?

Now, as to good hose plugs:

Until I actually just remove split joints and reconnect main systems directly, etc., what is best plug material for a fuel hose section that will be clamped-off with typical screw-gear clamps (which i'm using satisfactorily now).

Temporarily, i'm using whatever I could find.

you know, I don't know why that Rube goldberg contrap[tion with the injector on the line was rigged in to begin with.

Aside from the right plug material question, again, if I've clamped off a controlled pressure fuel return line, then what's happening in it's absence?

thanks again.

Bob

PS: My daughter goes to UF in Gainesville!!
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  #15  
Old 08-25-2003, 07:32 PM
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You are not listening.

The contraption was a rig to alter the original simple hydraulic system and allow an electronic correction. It was similar to adjusting the fuel mixture with a ten pound sledge hammer.

The device is a BY-PASS a RIG, it is not involved in the normal operation of the simple K-jet fuel system. The warm-up/control pressure is a separate fuel pressure control system, it has its own return line (see warm-up regulator..."In" is from the fuel distributer center top, out is from the other fitting back to the fuel return. The device I describe is attached to the "In" and dumps to the out, diverting fuel around the regulator.

If the car was running with that system recently you will need a significant fuel mixture correction once the system is restored (plugged/eliminated).
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