I wish I still had all my old smilies that I lost in the 'crash'. I'd be using the LMAORIF and BOWDOWN for this one!

Cap'n:

It sounds like your car is suffering from old age and possibly collateral damage due to the failure of other inter-related components...your luck with this appears a bit more unfortunate that it should be (although, minus the tranny and FI, your list is close to mine as far as the W124 is concerned).

The W124 is the Honda Accord of the MB line...you probably would be better off getting rid of it and cutting your losses, as you aren't on a journey to restoring a collectible. Or part it and start looking for a newer E?

BTW Camry lovers...that car is on the top of the hit list for theft in most states...so insurance rates would probably negate what you would be saving on repairs!

I think we are all drawn to the fact that we purchased ancient (and somewhat ailing) MBs because by face value, they looked shiny, robust, and capable of full-duty use as a regular driver for many more years. And we get to cruise to work in a BENZ for God's sake! A win-win situation!

None of us would have considered looking at a 6 (or more) yr. old Japanese or American car and feel the same excitement! But if we did, we probably would have experienced just as many problems (or more)...with the difference that much of it would be ignored or go unrepaired...until the car would just completely die!

How many of us owned a beater with a rusty A-frame and didn't think twice about it...but if the Benz makes a wierd noise when we do such-and-such it's BAM! Off to the forum! :p

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2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car

My wife and I bought a '98 ML320 in 2000, with 60,000 miles on the odo. We traded a Nissan with 215,000 miles that gave us very little trouble. In the first year we had it, the turn signal switch, harmonic balancer, and 4 wheel drive computer all went bad. A couple years after that the mid-shaft bearing quit and left my wife stranded 300 miles from home. I don't see how any of these were caused by a lack of maintenance.

I'm willing to live with some degree of higher maintenance for the character of the Mercedes, but this is more trouble than I would expect from a fine German car (it would be different if it were Italian or British). I'll admit the US built Mercedes are not as well made, or costly, as German produced cars, but I wish any of them lived up to the reputation for reliability Mercedes had 20 years ago.

Aside from that, the car rides and drives like new, even with the original shocks and 115,000 miles. Most Japanese cars would have needed shock replacement to avoid that floaty ride by now. I believe that the longevity of a Mercedes is still better than the Japanese--I'm expecting 300,000 miles out of my ML--but for reliability a new Honda or Toyota wins hands down.

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Lenny

There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games. --Ernest Hemingway

'10 GL550/'04 BMW 545/'99 BMW 323/'98 ML320/'87 VW GTI (race)

I'm as guilty as anyone for turning this into a 14 year old Mercedes verses Toyota/Honda debate. But let's take Steve Brotherton's advise and compare apples to apples.
A friend owns an 86 BMW 735i. Car is in great shape inside and out. He recently had it repainted and you would never think it was that old. We recently put 4 overfed men and overstuffed golf bags in it and drove it on a 250 mile roundtrip to a golf outing. I was very impressed with the ride, handling, comfort and sheer elegence of the car. Over 200,000 miles on original drivetrain.
When I asked my friend what it costs to maintain he just chuckled and said "Well anything you do to it is a $1000."
How often is that? "About twice a year."
So Cap'n, what's your point? I'm not sure other than luxury costs money. And then some more. And more...........

I suspect a considerable number of the complaints about reliability have to do with newer electronc systems that cost the earth to replace. If we could get the "lower line" MBs available in Europe, we would have fewer conplaints -- no ACC, no traction control, no power windows, no power seats, etc. Much nicer in my way of thinking. After all, it wasn't till the W126 chassis that you could GET power seats in a Benz!

We expect zero maintenance these days, I think and MB still does things the "old way". Maintenance is seen as something proper and expected, the idea of parts that last forever just doesn't seem to be part of the system yet.

Mind you, no one thinks of Benz as a disposable car (yet, anyway!), while no one things of a Dodge Neon as anything else! Or a Toyota or Nissan, either! Use em and toss em.

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

Cap'n, I guess that's where we differ... to me, your example reinforces my opinion.

I think driving a 1986 BMW 735i for only $2000/yr in maintenance is CHEAP!! You are getting a high-end luxury car experience for that money.

As I recall when I was in the market, the 735 has a reputation for high maintenance, and can thus be purchased cheap. Well under $10,000 for a very nice example of that vintage.

So, compare for example the 5-year cost of ownership. Lets say you spend the whole $10K for a really nice 735 of that year, spend $2K/year for maintenance, and end up with a resale value of $5K. So a net cost of $15K over 5 years.

What's the nicest Toyota experience you can get for the same cost of ownership? Maybe a brand new mid-range Camry. Ok, which would you rather drive, today... and a couple years from now?

Also, taxes, insurance and licensing (in most states) are significantly less on that BMW than on a new Camry, which you also have to figure into the total cost of ownership.

So... I think you CAN get luxury for less. Less money, anyway. I still have to give the nod to the new Toyota for less hassle.

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1992 300E Sedan (Sold)
1999 E320 Wagon (Sold)
1995 E320 Sedan
1995 E320 Wagon

In your zest to challenge anything I say or unthinkingly disagree with with me you missed my point. We should not be comparing unibodies with your old Benz. An old car is an old car. Whether a new anything is a better deal than an old Benz is highly subjective. My statement was not that luxury costs a lot of money. New luxury does. Old luxury costs less, but it still costs. And continues to cost in upkeep. Forget the Toyo and Hondas. Compare your car with what's in it's class. If it's worth what it costs to you then great. Let's hope it continues to hold up. Mine's eating my wallet and hasn't provided what was 'promised'.

Capt'n:

Benz has been unibody since 1953, so you would have to have a REALLY old one for a body on frame type.....

Peter

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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!

When you compare cost of ownership of automobiles you also have to factor in the "cost of money." If you finance it you have the interest cost of the loan. If you buy it outright you have the loss of the interest on the money or what you could have made on the money if you invested it elsewhere.

So, if you buy a used luxury car for $10,000 or a new whatever for $20,000, your cost of money is twice as much for the new whatever. Also, sales tax on the new whatever will be twice that of a $10,000 used luxury car.

So after you buy that new $20,000 car and after the new car warranty runs out after 3 years/36,000 miles you pay for repairs. These cars are also getting more complicated and are having their problems. Jump onto some discussion groups for Honda Accord's and Toyota Camry's and you will find they are also not as bulletproof as they once were. Again, this is probably due to these cars also not being as "basic" as they once were.

I don't know how owning an 86 BMW 735i would cost $2000/yr. I owned 12 Bimmers and only Bimmers before my 1st Benz and still have one. I can list all the possible problems that could go wrong in a pre 90 BMWs. I personally would not consider any of them major. An 84 528e that I spent no more than $1500 in the past 7 years. Starts every morning and I prefer it over the Benz. It's my daily driver. The Benz costed me about $3000 so far most of it in parts in less than 2 years. I drove the 528e to Chicago from SC over 15 times in the last 2 years. I love the way this car cruise on the Highway. By the way, Not a single drop of oil added between oil changes. It has 189,xxx. Unless your friend goes to the dealer everytime something wrong goes with the car, small or big, I can understand $2000. Most of the expense of maintaing German cars is Labor. I must admit that I don't take my car anywhere unless I really really have to. I research and try to fully understand the system I am working on. I have plenty of tools. I am successful 90% of the time and sometimes I give up due to lack of specail expensive tools. I can't wait to get a 540i 6-speed...talking about power and handling. Truly the Ultimate Driving Machine.

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Meza
1993 190E 2.6
Advanced Diesel Systems Test and Research Engineer

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that!

Meza, the fiend I speak of with the BMW always uses the dealer. He doesn't know the difference between a spark plug and spark knock!

Just for the record --had a 94 750i -- I hit a parking curb (not very hard I add) I do not remember what it was that I damaged on that thing -- it was an electronic sensor + ( I am not making this up $4500.00) I remember calling my insurance co and also fighting with BMW service about this crasy set up for this motor. BMW did step up to the plate.

They suffer from the same thing as MB - so does SAAB -- years ago (around 91)you never and I do say never wanted to own a 9000 T out of warr.

Even under a warranty, damage caused by misuse, such as by hitting a curb would not be covered. Although there is reason to only own some of the more complex cars only while they are covered by warranty, this is not one of them.

Hi there,

I for one also think $2000 in repairs a year is rather high.
I do like the design of bimmers as well, but as soon as I get into one I am let down by the plasticky build of the interior. Also I worked in Denmark at a BMW dealer and I saw the repair bills. Everything seem like special order and repair costs were consistently high. I for one is a very biased MB fan. I love the feeling of quality. In comparison I am not considering the latest 3-4 years of cars for MB or BMW. I do feel like MB has lost some ground during these years. I hope years to come proves us wrong but the stories worries me.
My experience with my last 4 MB's are as follows:

1998 - 2000 300ce from -92:
Got it with 67000 miles one owner from the dealer and negotiated 3 years starmark warranty for $980.- . Only thing ever went wrong was a dead battery, which MB replaced as it was not an original MB battery. My wife was sold on MB's. In terms of depreciation, this was my most expensive (-$7000).

1999-Current 300sdl from -86: (currently 172000)
Found this one owner car with 124000 mi. Same mechanic for the last 14 years, who has all rec's.
Has beyond reg. maintenance cost about $1200. Worst things were a leaking injector pipe, a stuck window and screecking wheel bearing. (Battery is way overdue and brakes are due soon, no warping though). Depreciation is negliable.

2000 - 2003 s500 -96: Starmarked for 4 years for $2000.
Leased this one for 36 mth's. Paid 52000 + tax. US Bank signed up for residual of 38000. This past februar I negotiated with US bank through 2 mth's (they called several times) and finally paid 20800. Two weeks later we sold it privately for 28000 with still one year of transferable starmark warranty. Depreciation very cool. Bank lost a little. Got new tires and heater core on the warranty. Had to do brakes myself for $700. Nothing else ever went wrong.

2003 - currently 560sel from -89:
This car I just bought. ("Buyer beware" story). I had just put new brakes and rotors all over for $670. Everything else has been done to it. Paid too much but with all the repairs I feel, I have a very good car on my hands.

In my experience I believe that buying an older well kept MB with proper maintenance history can only save you money over the long run. No other car can come close in terms of total ownership cost compared to the luxury you enjoy. With the newer ones with problems and depreciation factor, it is another story.
I believe I will be driving MB's for the rest of my life. 65% of the reason I would say is the total ownership cost. Rest is the fact that they are very safe and drives very nice. I do miss my S500 but I will say that I feel I was lucky with the one I had.

I think many people who have stories with older ones are either inheriting other peoples problems or mistreating their cars. I believe german cars are more sensitive to misuse and bad maintenance. One way I see people mistreat cars is by not letting them heat up and cool down properly. It's easy to hurt a car in these two phases.
Another thing I have made my wife no do is the parking on a hill without setting the emergency brake. The car then hangs in the transmission and when she shifts to drive upon leaving the car makes a big jerk, which can't be good for the transmission. Also when I meet her she would sometimes shift to park before the car was at a complete stop (barely moving). But it still resulted in a jerk. I don't know what these actions do to the car but my common sense tells me it's not a good idea.
What do I know. I just know that my MB experience has proven to both my wife and I that keeping older MB's. A prerequisit though is that one knows which models and which problem with model to look out for. That's where these forums helps out so much..

Jari

Talking about owning a Benz, I bought a 1994 C180 188,000kms last year from a shifty used dealer and had to do quite a bit of jobs to fix things since then. I failed to have it checked by an independent inspector and took it as is. So far, I have had to do the following:-

full lubrication service, oil change, brake fluid change, power steering fluid top up/checks, transmission fluid top up/checks, new OEM air filter and sparks.
Alarm system checked and serviced
aircon checked and serviced.
all brakes checked and missing wear sensors installed.
front bushes looked bad from under, replaced.
all four wheel covers replaced-cosmetic.
windscreen wiper blade replaced.
leaking water pump and noisy tensioner replaced.
worn serp. belt. replaced.
battery totally flat replaced.
blown rear brake lamp replaced.
blown rear ceiling courtesy lamp bulb replaced.
some fuses replaced.
2 leaking vacuum actuators under the dash replaced.
a couple of dash bulbs replaced.
coolant tank cap replaced.
fuel pump and filter replaced, but wasn't necessary. Conned by indie!
replaced whole exhaust system, main muffler went south.
regreased sunroof/moonroof rails.
replaced left front door RV mirror console previously damaged.
replaced radio aerial and plastic trace, popped out.
removed golfball dents in front hood and respray .
resprayed front bumper and side mouldings.

tinted all windows except front as an extra.
put in front and back seat covers.

extra future work:-
change all 4 rotors and pads.
change all 4 shocks, rears have oily traces.
change damaged rear boot locking mech.-still works though.
dash centre airflow roller jammed open permanently-luckily.
alloy rims and wider tyres-now OEM 15"steels with 195s.
change speakers which are not efficient enough.
Have almost new condition Pioneer 12disc CD player Carrozzeria CDX-P1200 for rear boot with missing plastic CD tray and also almost new condition Pioneer High Power Super Tuner 111 , KEH-P4750 waiting to be installed. No speakers yet.

The above fixes were not really major, mostly ignored by hopeless PO.

So anyone out there looking to buy a high mileage Benz, please check it out completely and make sure you have a few spare bucks up your sleeve to do all the required fixes, ignored by the PO.