I dunno.... I really like seeing other Mercedes cars on the road..... Especially the older ones....

With these cars knowlege is power.... They can be the most expensive car in the world to maintain if your willing to hand over your money like a fool.... On the other hand if your a smart buyer and shop around they can be one of the cheapest cars around.... When someone says "its a Mercedes" to justify their outrageous parts or service price I look somewhere else to serve my needs...

If I wanted to be exclusive I would buy a Rolls Royce or Maserati Quattroporte.... I like Mercedes cars because they are a high quality well engineered car that lasts forever....

I don't like Honda and Toyota cars because they feel so cheap... I had a 2002 Accord Coupe I bought because it was supposedly the "icon of reliability" and the doors closed like they were made out of recycled diet coke cans.... My 82 300SD has fabric wrapped door seals and a lot of trim pieces.... My 2002 Accord had a cheap piece of channel plastic covering the body welds and a cheap rubber seal for the door with painted metal showing inside the car where trim should have covered it.... The Japanese copy from the best engineering wise but market their cars for the masses where price is of the greatest importance.... A couple bucks saved on cheaper plastic and lighter metal and less finish trim means more profit and a lower entry price....

Ok guys, this original post has had some 56 THOUSAND views!!

Let's look at a few FACTS, because I think everyone's forgotten a few things...

1) Hondas and Toyotas wouldn't even be DISCUSSED here if they weren't DAMN GOOD CARS . Face it fella's. They RARELY BREAK . They are INCREDIBLE cars . And they have BEATEN the Germans at reliability, hands down , for anything made since 1986. And that's 20 years ago. With MB, you have to tiptoe as to which one models to avoid that can swallow your wallet whole in repairs (350sd anyone? What's that cost, $9,000 to REPAIR?). Would someone please find me a Toyota or Honda forum for a bunch of repairs? One probably don't exist, and if it does, I doubt people are posting such serious problems. With Jap cars, you can pretty much throw a dart at a board, and win every time.

2) Look at Consumer Reports repair and reliability info. That's based on thousands of replies, not 1 person's view. MB a/c engineers should have been SHOT for making such a problematic a/c unit!! Can anyone (sane) argue with that? They cost a fortune to fix; several thousand dollars in some people's case. A Jap car would have cost $70 for a simple freon recharge after 20 years. It's SAD to see some MB owners sweating like a PIG in the summer (and you know who you are), THINKING they are driving a superior car, feeling above the guy in the ...lowly Toyota or Honda.... (who is buzzing around nice, cool, and comfortable).... wishing he too could own a Mercedes.

3) Compare the curb weight of these similar sized cars, Camry, Accord, which is about 2857 pounds vs. a MB 300E, at 3435 pounds. That's about 600 POUNDS extra on a MB. That's like the weight of a fully loaded refrigerator extra than the Jap cars. The extra weight uses more gas, but you gain safety in a crash, and they add in a nicer, quieter car. That's worth something.

4) Mercedes aren't made for the average Joe. They are made primarily for those WITH A LOT OF MONEY. Those with money wouldn't COMPLAIN about repair costs; they don't CARE! (However, no one wants a constant PROBLEM, either.) The rich just want a nice riding car, not economy, not low repair bills. It's my understanding that in the OLD days, MB's were the "poor man's car" in Germany, because they would buy one new when they were young and keep it for many years.

You can drive both cars for let's say 200,000 miles, with the MB costing a lot more in repairs. But for that 200,000 miles, with a Mercedes, you will have had a nicer riding car. Not a cheaper car, but a nicer riding, quieter, more stable car. Average Joe cars is not what MB was making.

1991 300d, 90 k (I've heard the diesels have fewer problems)
1988 300e (sold in 1998, due to TOO MANY REPAIRS NEEDED)

JBACH36:

Look at my signature below. I own a Honda too! go to www. s2ki.com and you will be able to read about MANY problems owners have had with their Honda S 2000s. And you can read about warranty problems, extended warranty problems, and plain old dealer repair problems too.

I am not bringing this up over any "sour grapes" issues, as my Mercedes, my Honda S 2000, and even my old Ford pickup have given me PERFECT service since I bought them new. But you asked for a car owner's website for some makes, including Honda, where you could read about some problems, so I am giving you one!

Thanks,
Richard Ruth
Membership Chairman, Central Oklahoma Section

2004 C 320
2001 Honda S 2000
1998 Ford Ranger

JBACH36,
I havent read through all the previous posts but from your I will point out one glaring oversight. R&D. Ask any car buff what technology is going to be on the "average" car in the next 10 yrs and they will tell you to look at the current S-class. So you are right that in the moment Japanese cars are more reliable and simpler to own etc..but without someone trying out new ideas and systems such as Mercedes and other German makes you would be driving the same basic Japanese car in 10 years as your are today only with some new sheet metal to go with the latest trend. Dont think so? Guess how many part numbers are the same for a 94 Toyota Camry and a 2001 Lexus ES300
You have a point, Japanese cars are more reliable in terms of immediate function now but what about for the car industry as a whole in respect to advancement? (And no the current fad of hybrids doesnt apply - get a deisel )

__________________
88 300E
03 911 C4S
2008 Triumph Speed Triple

My pics --> www.BrettAdamsDesign.com

There is no absolute standard for "too troublesome." It's always a question whether it's too troublesome or expensive or whatever for some particular person.

Mine is not too troublesome for me. I love my car and I have to fix things about it A LOT less often than I did my three Saabs.

If it's too troublesome for you, or the pleasure of driving a Benz isn't worth whatever trouble it may be to you, then by all means get a Camry.

this forum will be the reason i by another m-b. its nice to have somebody to help out people like me who has some mechanical ability but doesent know the brand. also i had a bad experence with the local m-b dealer. wont go back there.

That seems to be the difference. It's all in one's perspective as to what is the best. What is it you're looking for. It's obvious that there are a lot of people here who value the craftmanship, etc. of MB's. The Europeans seem to have a cache that the Japaese have never been able to match. Japanese cars just seem so aesthetically sterile.

It's like the difference between the Greeks and the Romans. The Greeks produced the most elegant art, music, and literature, etc. The Romans conquered the Greeks, though. Then they spent the next few hundred years improving on the stuff the Greeks had come up with. Didn't produce anything particularly dazzling or novel, just incrementally better.

There's not right or wrong in this debate. It all depends upon what the individual values most.

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

No

I suspect that all the new MB-models, too many if you ask me, is what makes the service less good since the mechanics have no chance to learn a model properly. When I come in with my -94 C124, they say that it was long ago they had one in the workshop...?

What I like though is that these old machines, despite some flaws, seems to last longer than any new car and the feeling to drive is still better than any of the newer cars I have tried out. A lot better!

As many has stated before, they don´t build this quality anymore. Except in the G-class...

__________________
-94 E 36 AMG Coupé, Brilliant Silver
-98 G 500, Obsidian Black
-05 Mini Cooper, Solid Black
-97 993 Carrera S, Ocean Blue

What do you want to devote all of that time, money, attention, blood, sweat, and tears to? A classic car like a Benz or a rice rocket? I think aesthetics, history, and tradition, as well as engineering all make the MB a much worthier subject for all of our efforts.

__________________
" We have nothing to fear but the main stream media itself . . . ."- Adapted from Franklin D Roosevelt for the 21st century

OBK #55

1998 Lincoln Continental - Sold
Max 1984 300TD 285,000 miles - Sold
The Dee8gonator 1987 560SEC 196,000 miles - Sold
Orgasmatron - 2006 CLS500 90,000 miles
2002 C320 Wagon 122,000 miles
2016 AMG GTS 12,000 miles

Yes they are and thank GOD for that! Otherwise, they'd be too damn expensive to buy used and every tight wad a-hole that loves to stick it in your face every chance they get that they never spend fooliskly, like you do, would be driving one.

You know, I used to love Harleys too, until they ironed out all the bugs. Now, look who's driving them, my f'n grandma! You wouldn't catch me dead on one.

I was made in Germany too. You think I'm perfect? No, and you don't see my wife running out, trying to replace me with a hard working, bright Asian fellow with a small pecker do you?

I say we keep the general public thinking that these cars are expensive to repair and troublesome so that we can pick them up for a song on the used car market. I love it when the wanna be rich dump their expensive luxury cars for pennies on the dollar, just to prove that they don't need the money, when they really do. And I don't want to drive the same kind of car that some 18 year old got for graduating high school, despite the ADD and drug charges. Then, when they crash into a tree after a wild drunk-fest and their mangled Civics wind up parked in front of their school, as an example of what not to do with your life, Pops will be wishing he bought junior a safer car like a Mercede-Benz and after all, the more time it spends in the garage, the more time you have to take a walk. Hard to spend money on foreign oil when you're walking! Who's laughing now?

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http://ez-yachts.com/images/fun/police.gif

1989 190E 2.6

If you own both at the same time like a Jap car and German,I tend to agree Jap built car that last longer and less maintenance. I have civic VX 92. That little thing give me 48 m/g and hardly ever need any work on it. Now I own MB E320 1995 I am 2nd owner. I like my MB too but I have to agree that cost of maitainnance is high. But man ! It is worth paying for that cost I look cool on MB

So nkpnkp, are you saying you only have a MB to look cool? I mean, are you saying MB's aren't really better, but they cost more, keeping most people out of them. Are they just for people on low on self esteem?

Some of you guys are scaring the **** out of me! I just bought a 1993 300E from a very reputable MB garage that also sells used MB's. They have maintained the car since selling it to the previous owner in 2001. It has had a full valve job, heah gasket, radiator, wiring harness, brakes, etc. I felt very comfortable buying this car as a daily driver that would give me 100k trouble free miles; after reading some of these posts I'm not so sure.

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1993 300E 2.8 185k miles
2006 Mustang Convertible 4.0 Eaton Supercharged

okay there is really only one thing wrong with mercedes benz and the same thing is wrong with all of them.if you spend two hours in the left front seat driving down the highways and byways you are screwed for the rest of your life you wont want to drive anything else.david poole european performance dallas tx.