Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Tech Help

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-30-2003, 11:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 39
91 300E takes two times to start

I got a 91 300E (85,000 miles) and always had this problem ever since I bought it last year. It quickly starts and immediately dies (usually happens in cold weather). Starting again is no problem. However, when starting in warmer weather it takes couple of seconds or more of cranking then it starts up with slight hesitation and idles fine.

During the summer I replaced the fuel filter, EGA, fuel acculmator, spark plugs (the heavy duty Bosch), OVP and spark plug (Beru) wires and the problem remains. Any ideas what can be the cause.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-30-2003, 12:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,272
Normal! If you look over the last few of days of thread topics you will find at least two threads on this subject along with an explanation of why this is the case and how to mitigate it.

There is nothing wrong with your car!

Duke
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-01-2003, 03:53 AM
zorin's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 126
1. Your car might be running a little lean . (check output at the diagnostic port) or
2. The ignition coil might be not as healthy as it should be.
__________________
Zorin

'88 Benz 420 SEL
'79 Porsche 911SC ('87 Carrera Engine)
'00 BMW 540 Sports Package
'99 Land Rover Discovery

86 300E - Manual (sold)
88 260E (sold)
84 944 (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-01-2003, 01:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 39
The iginition coil was replaced when I did the tune up and I checked it again and it's fine. I also did look at the old threads but their solutions I have already done. I am out of solutions for now but I wonder how many 300E are there that take two times to start.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-01-2003, 01:59 PM
haasman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,097
After I use a bottle of Techron in less than a full tank, I don't have this problem.

Haasman
__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-01-2003, 02:20 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 39
I used Redline fuel system cleaner and afterwards always used 2 oz whenever I filled the tank up. If the injectors were clogged then why would the car start up right away and die?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-01-2003, 02:30 PM
haasman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,097
A Khan

It could be that using a fuel system cleaner is different than an injector cleaner.

I don't think you need to add fuel system cleaner with every tankful. I don't.

What brand of fuel do you use?

Which plugs (Beru) are you using?

What do you do with your foot when it starts?

Have you tried turning on the key and then waiting two seconds?

Haasman
__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-01-2003, 02:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 39
Hi Haasman,
I used to use BP but stopped using that brand and started using Citgo (3 months now and no more bouncing gas gauges). I am using Bosch heavy duty spark plugs and the Redline fuel system cleaner is also a injector cleaner.

Yes, I always wait couple of seconds for the fuel pump to start. I just think that this a defect that can be hard to trace or it's very common with this model. Maybe next summer (it's getting cold in Chicago) I will try to replace the injectors and see if that helps (but I doubt it) because right now my car idles great.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-01-2003, 02:43 PM
haasman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,097
A Khan

I bet the bouncing fuel gauge was solved by the Redline additive. They make good products. Often the tiny wires in the sending unit get coated with crud over the years.

Which model of Bosch plugs? Specifically? Are they the multi-electrode?

Haasman
__________________
'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-01-2003, 02:45 PM
Benz300's Avatar
Benz Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: new jersey, usa
Posts: 804
A Khan,
My 260E does exactly the same thing. Only difference is that during the first crank in the morning it starts up fine. but once the car is warm and i try to restart it afterwards, the first crank is always unsuccessfull. it starts and dies right away . i almost always have to crank it again and it starts up fine on the second one.
Reading some previous posts people suggested it could be vapors in the fuel lines accumulated, etc etc. there were many theories behind it which, when I added up, were costing anywhere from a 1000 to 3000 dollars. I really didn't think trying to get away from cranking twice was worth that much and all the trips to the mech. to try to troubleshoot all the parts. Hence I installed a remote starter and now I just remote start it before I'm entering the car. The first time always fails but the remote start senses that and starts it up again. so by the time i'm in the car, it has already started
The rest is your choice. good luck with it. But from what I've read a lot of 300E owners had this problem and couldn't pin point the problem area. It was basically just changing parts till you get lucky and the problem goes away.
__________________
Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-01-2003, 08:59 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Chicago
Posts: 39
When the fuel gauge was bouncing I replaced it with a new gauge and after of couple of fills at BP it started again. Changed gas about a month ago bouncing decreased. The spark plugs I replaced were Bosch Heavy Duty (HDCO).

Zorin pointed out to check the output of diagnostic port. Where is this located? It could be a lean mixture at startup since it hiccups a little when starting then idels fine. It's just the seems like if it has the right amount of fuel when starting then it won't die.

I don't plan to continue spending money at parts (e.g. fuel injectors) but I guess it's fun when you work on a car and replace old items with new it gives a great feeling that you accomplished something for a second until you learn that it did not fix the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-01-2003, 09:31 PM
pesuazo's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Near Raleigh, NC
Posts: 580
Interesting.
I have used Amoco 93 (now BP) for years. Now all of a sudden, my gas gauge works intermittently. Sometimes it jumps between empty and whatever the tank has.
Where is the sensor located, is it reachable from the trunk, or underneath the car?
I am thinking is a bad electrical contact.
__________________
1999 Porsche 996 Carrera Convertible
1994 420E - SOLD
1986 300E - SOLD, what a car
609 Certified
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-01-2003, 09:34 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,272
Seriously, I think you guys should save you money and energy for a real problem when it shows up. Old cars get cranky and cantakerous when they get into middle and old age. So will we - if we haven't already. The KE fuel system is either an engineering marvel or or a kluge depending on your point of view.

Try giving it a little throttle just as it catches and it will probably stay running or try opening the throttle a little before cranking. Play around with different techniques until you find one that works.

I went around and around with the dealer service manager and Merc service rep about the poor starting characteristics of these engines when my car was new, especially the two tries at cold starting in mild temperatures and two tries at hot starting after about 30 minutes to an hour after being shut down from fully warmed up. Interestingly, the starting problems appear to have mitigated as the car aged, but I only drive it in winter now, and use another car for summer.

After they finally gave me enough real engineering data on the KE system I accepted its behavior and adjusted my operating habits. Cars aren't smart enough to adapt to our preferences, so it's a lot easier and cheaper for us to adapt to their idiosyncracies.

Duke
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-01-2003, 11:01 PM
azhari
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
My car used to start fine on first key cold or warm.

After I replaced a failing fuel distributor, the car starts on first key when warm but when cold, starts on 1st key and dies unless I step on the gas pedal.

Wierd!:p
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-02-2003, 01:42 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 20
I have a 92 190E 2.6 and it does the same thing. It can not be the coil, the plugs, the plug wires, or the gas you use if it always starts the second time. I have not totally troubleshot mine yet but heres what I think....

When you first try to start the car...it starts up and then dies because there was enough gas in the injectors to start the car, but then that gas gets used up and the car cant get the gas back up to the injectors to keep it running. The gas has to be somehow flowing back down away from the injectors. How, I dont know...by virtue of the fuel pumps that Mercedes have you would think that as soon as you turn the key the pumps would start trying to force the gas up to the injectors. I have some have changed out there fuel pumps, the relays, and the fuel filter and this has not solved the problem. I have read almost every thread regarding this subject and I dont think that anyone can give you a definitive answer that will fix it the first time. I just bought my 190E so I am new to Mercedes and their what seem to be common problems, but give me some time and I'll figure it out.

As for now, I suggest to just deal with it and be prepared to turn the key twice.

SKI

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page