dealer won't acknowledge problem.
 

Guys,
I need help with this. I took my lexus to the dealer for the ongoing brake issues. Spongy pedal, extra foot force required to stop the car etc...
The dealer's service dept say they test drove the car and dont see anything wrong with it. However three other indys have acknowledged that it has to be the master cylinder.
what can I do ? The dealer is persistent the car is perfectly fine... I'm in a situation where I want the dealer to fix the Master cylinder because it was changed last year and is still under one year warranty...
any ideas ?

put a star on the hood and take it to a Mercedes Dealer maybe they won't notice........
William Rogers.......

Well, some other possible approaches:

Why don't you tell one of the techs to climb in the passenger seat with you, and show them the problem? Then swap seats and see what is his say...

Get what these three techs are saying down on paper...if they are certified mechanics, there is no reason why the dealership can't get their own techs to confirm with their peers...

Tell them that your attorney is very concerned with the fact that you carry the legal minimum PLPD insurance and you almost hit an expectant mother, on crutches, pushing a baby carriage, while you were trying to stop at the school crosswalk. Make the dealer then put in writing the fact that there is NOTHING wrong with your master cylinder. I will bet they replace it. ;)

I like the way you think ! :D
Proves I'm not as sick & perverted as I thought.

Me too! ;)

If that story doesn't work, I don't know what will. :D

The hard part will be keeping a straight face. :)

i totally agree.
I'll be talking to the dealer early next week. will keep you guys posted.
thanks for the replies !

Speak to the Service Manager and tell him you want to speak to the Zone District Service Manager- You want to schedule an appointment.

If he says no, then call the Lexus customer service number and report your problem.

Push, push, push .... they are questioning a safety item ..... ?hmmm, lets think about this for a minute .....

Tell him your close friend Mr. Haasman writes an automotive column and he'd love to publish this about Lexus.

Push back on them.

Haasman

thanks Haasman,
your sincere advice is by no means any less than that of a close friend and is very much appreciated.
I spoke to the service manager today. Had him take the car on a test drive personally. and then had him drive another similiar model for comparison sake. Thank God I got him to admitt that indeed the brakes aren't working the way they should. He asked me to leave the car there over the weekend for him to figur out what's going on.
Will keep you posted on what happens next.
thanks again for everyone's advice.

Don't try this strategie.
The service manager may know that Mr. haasman doesn't have any friends. :D

Well, friendless or not, I am glad the service manager has seen the light.

Lexus is a company that has worked very hard to establish high expectations. Good functioning brakes certainly falls within that category.

Keep us posted on what they find and do.

Haasman

got a call back from the dealer today. it's unbelievable. the service assist manager had test driven the car with me last week and acknowledged that the brakes werent as effective. now I get a call today from the manager of service saying the tech's checked it out again and don't see any problems. I wasted half an hour trying to reason with him but he won't listen. As a last resort I did tell him that I almost got into an accident situation and want to take this all the way upto corporate lexus and he said I'm welcome to do that...
They claim they checked the system but I know they didn't since their assist manager told me they don't do anything besides test driving the car and checking for leaks of brake fluid.
The master cylinder was replaced last year by them. When I told them that other techs have pointed out to a possilby faulty master cylinder he said it didn't show signs of any problems.
I'm stuck and quite frustrated.
what should I do next ?
I would like to know what other compnonents could possibly be at fault here. the following have been replaced so far :
1. master cylinder
2. brake booster
3. brake pads and rotors
4. Calllipers have been checked for proper operation.
5. bleeding done 5 times by different mechanics
6. pressuer check valve

Anything else that comes to mind ?
symptoms are :
spongy pedal,
never touches the floor but stops about 2 inches away from it.
requires additional foot force to stop the car. the more foot pressure is applied to the pedal, the harder the pedal seems to get, it's as if the pedal is resisting the foot pressure while I'm trying to brake.

I'm in new jersey, and would be more than happy to take it to anyone at this point who specializes in brakes. I just need the damn problem fixed. but before I do that, I want to make sure that the $2750 that i've given the lex dealer for the same problem don't go wasted either...

master cylinder problem? Lexus
 

Go to your local district court (or equivelent) claims for over $2000. Get a summons against the dealer, (get someconfirmatin in wriring about the defects proven to local indy. SShow this with repair bills and claims (prove visits, get statement from dealer disclaiing any need to repair) I bet that within days after you preent summoons, will replace defective unit or have yu meet with Lexus rep. Good luckk Abe G

Is there by chance another Lexus dealer in your area? If so, take the car in and have them evaluate it. Get it in writing. Go back to the first dealer with the second dealers written opinion.

I would also speak personally with the general mgr. at the problem dealership.

Exactly why I drive two ageing 126's I can buy a master cylinder from FastLane for 157 dollars and have it on and bled in the time it takes for one good argument with the sleezy dealer.........
William Rogers..........

I agree with you. It sounds to me that the Master Cylinder is not working properly. Is the Booster getting the correct vacuum to it? No leaks?

Also, just another thought. You say that the Booster was changed. If I recall correctly, the brake pedal goes to a little bar that when you brake it goes into the booster that "boosts" the pressure to activate the master cylinder to brake. Now, I wonder since you changed the booster, was everything put together correctly, mainly this little bar. I do not know if it has threads on it that you can adjust?

Maybe, just maybe, the dealer did not do a good job of putting everything back together again and this little bar is not making enough contact or correct contact to cause efficient braking. Hence, you have to push the pedal almost to the floor to brake the car. This scenario is only valid if it is true that the master Cylinder is good!

I read a post on another website that some brakes are self adjusting and therefore should be driven in reverse and then have brakes applied.
I did the same . drove in reverse barking heard making the abs turn on a couple of times.
Interestingly the pedal did become a little better but not really where I want it to be. after about half an hour of driving however the pedal went back to the long travel where it had started from.
My question: why did the pedal feel change when the method of driving in reverse while braking was applied ?

Soft pedal
 

If the car stops even with extra leg power the pads and calipers are probably working OK and the master cylinder is delivering fluid to the brakes. Check the vacuum at the booster if OK check the venting valve on the brake pedal side of the booster, under the dash. Check the vacuum source on the intake manifould.
Sounds to me like your leg needs some help from the booster.

air in the lines maybe?

Benz300, that only applies to drum brakes with self adjusters.............
William Rogers........

well.. the air scenerio should 'hopefully' not be applicable since I've bled the brakes 4 times. however theres an interesting topic where they say that cars with ABS sometimes have air trapped in the ABS system. so it could potentially be the case that when I drive the car in reverse and brake heard engaging ABS, the air frm the ABS is travelling down to the callipers and in turn helping a firmer pedal feel. I'll get the brakes beld again while the pedal is better after ABS has been egaged a couple of times.
More over it seems like a soft pedal is a common complain with lexus owners. one of the things people have done are to change the brake likes to stainless steel lines. I've ordered the goodridge SS lines and will have the tech put them on too. let's see how that helps out the situation.
thanks again for everyone's input. I'll keep you guys posted.