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  #1  
Old 11-15-2003, 11:10 AM
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another 500E euro headlight question

I did a search already on the different threads concerning euro headlight conversions. There are alot of similar questions to the one I have here, but no thread seemed to address it and answer it directly. Here's my specific question that I haven't been able to find a definitive answer on yet.

I just got a 1990 W124 300E 4-Matic from a friend. I want to do a Euro headlight conversion and install an HID kit. I have read that the 500E lights replace the H3 fog light with a H1 driving light (pencil beam). Since the HID kit is only single beam, I would like to have the 500E headlight to replace the hi beams the HID takes away. I don't live in a fog prone area, so not having foglights isn't a concern.

My question is: Will the 500E euro headlight fit on a 1990 300E?

Alot of the threads imply no problem, others say it needs to have the post '93 hood. Which is true?

I see a pair of late model '93-'95 euro headlamps on eBay. Do those replace the foglight with driving light (pencil beam ) also? Or is it only the Hella models?

In addition, before everyone chimes in about how much better Hella is than the cheaper brands like TYC and Depo, I realize this and I'm willing to accept that at half the price. I have Hella in my BMW E30, and yes they are great, but they didn't cost me $500+ either.

Also, before everyone says that HID's aren't worth it or some silliness about Sylvania Silverstars being equally bright, I've already made up my mind based on past experience with lighting. In my E30 I have Hella euro headlights in H4. WIth a Bosch relay harness, and Catz Zeta inline headlight boosters(ballasts). Yes my lights are way brighter than stock. Maybe even 2x+. But my friend with the same Hella euro headlights and an HID kit is still significantly brighter than even my setup. That's why since I'm starting from scratch with the 300E I'm starting outright with HID. Besides the amount of money I spent on ballasts, relay harnesses, high quality JDM PIAA bulbs, etc. It almost comes out to the same price as a deal priced all Philips components (including Philips bulbs) HID kit.

My main concern is the euro reflector pattern for the headlights and the driving light (pencil beam) and the ease of fitment in my car.

Thanks for the help. Once I get a clear answer I'll go ahead and order euro headlights. If people say that the 500E lights won't fit in my '90 300E I'll just go with the euro lights with the fog beam. But if it is possible I'll order the 500E lights.

Thanks

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  #2  
Old 11-15-2003, 12:02 PM
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Yes, the 500E lights will fit your car. The only time you would need the post '93 hood would be if you're using post '93 headlights, although I've seen statements to the contrary.

If you want the 500E lights, then Hella's are the only game in town. The DEPO and TYC lights are 300E only. Some people have used chrome tape on the grey areas inside the light to make it look like the 500E, but they still look a little different due to the additional fluting on the lens of the 300E fogs.

I too had planned on getting the 500E lights and a xenon retrofit kit, but I read enough threads saying this was not a good idea due to the different light source characteristics of the xenon bulb. Additionally, I believe the DOT or some other .gov agency shut down the aftermarket xenon business as they did not meet some standard (FMSVV108 or something like that).
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2003, 12:02 PM
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dko3tgk

first of all, w124 lights are the same thru out models and years.

in '94 & '95 cars the hood was changed,there fore the LENS shape was changed to fit around new hood. also the 'e' designation came before the model number. examples e500 vs 500e and so on.

the 500e lights do NOT take a h1 bulb. they take the standard h3.

500e lights will fit on your car.

hella is the ONLY manufacturer of 500e/e500 euro lights.
these all have driving lights instead of fogs.

my personal opinion is hid's are not designed for the regular h4 lense and reflector, there fore imo potentially dangerous to others on the road.

go to the daniel stern website if you want to know the 'facts' regarding this conversion.

it is your car and your choice to get hids or not.

i'm not trying to give you a hard time, sometimes technologies aren't really compatible. most [euro] hid cars have a automatic leveling system when hids are used-extra safety margin.
too much light in someones eyes can be very dangerous. i know i would not enjoy encountering 'the rising sun' on a dark road.

if you really want to have them, yes the 500e set-up seems most logical because of high beam capability.

run.exe and several others here have done or doing this mod, you can also search at bnzsport some people there have done this too.
does [some of] this answer your questions?

peter
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2003, 05:48 PM
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thanks

yup, those were the answers I was looking for.

It stinks now that I have to decide whether to plop down $500+ on the headlights.

By the way as to the aftermarket HID stuff, it's illegal to sell not to buy. As of August or something. It just means that' it's harder to get. The good thing about H4 is that you can use almost all the parts from a generic D2S system. ANd just a little modification. So no need for imported illegal kits.

THe good thing about H4 conversions is that you can just use a stock D2S setup and just by adapter rings that fit it into the H4. Also if you buy the Caspers Electronics adapters, it also incorporates a glare shield. It prevents the light from hitting the bottom of the refector and keep the light from going up into peoples eyes. Plus everyone says you need to aim the lights a little lower than average. It'll be fine. Even the SUV's have levelers, but have you ever been behind one in traffic? You feel like you've been pulled over and they are shining the floodlight into your car. This is because the lights are so high up that they are pointed right at your head at close distance.

The reason everyone gets mad about HID aftermarket setups is that most people don't shield the bottom of the bulb. YEs that creates unecessary glare, it's not even useful light. Even H4 halogens have a shield under the low beam filament for the same reason. I intend to do the same thing. Plus, with the euro beam pattern that helps alot, plus even if I lose some of the light due to efficiency issues, HID still is brighter than a halogen would be.

I have read Daniel Sterns page in the past. He's very technical about all of this which is good, I've learned alot from it, I also like to incorporate experience. As I said in the original post, my friend with the same car, same Hella reflectors with HID, is way brighter than my relay and ballast halogen setup.
But thanks for all your input and for answering my questions.

Is the install any different in the 500E euro conversion? I'm assuming no, but if there is a difference let me know.


Thanks again for all your help. Thanks for answering my specific questions too.

I'll try to take a picture of headlights from behind the drivers seat with stock lighting and after euro conversion and HID. It'll take some time though.
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2003, 05:56 PM
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One quick question! If I put euro 300E headlight on US vision 300E, will it fit well (don't need change hood)??? It's because I have a friend in Germany. He can help me to buy an euro headlight (Hella or Bosch). Thanks
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2003, 06:33 PM
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re- euro install

it would be the same except you want the dimmer/turn signal switch to control driving lights/high beams vs [current set up] light switch control.

i would wire them so hids were on with high beams.

have you looked at the philips & sylvania kits?

just thinking, they have been around for a long time and will be there if you have problems done the road.

we want pictures.

btw-welcome to m.b.shop!

peter
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2003, 07:02 PM
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Please let us know the $$$. The lowest price I've seen is $239 from German Star.
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2003, 09:24 PM
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Thank you for welcoming to the owners fanatics club. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute.

I'll probably be ordering from a guy on Ebay. Some guy named Niko in Germany. He has the 300E headlights, the TYC or Depo ones, all the bulbs, and clear corners, and free shipping from Germany for $270. Pretty decent deal, he's a good communicator by email, I plan to buy from him. He also lets you add on smoked tails for $80(approx.)
So that's the deal I'll probably go for. Hella in my mind isn't worth double. ANd since I plan to get an HID kit for around $300. I would probably reallocate the money there instead of the HElla euros.

If anyone knows a low cost 500E euro source, I'd like to hear about it.

I'm looking at an HID kit on GroupBuyCenter.com There is a vendor named Discount Cycle that always offers high quality stuff. LAst group buy that I saw him offer was an H4 kit of all Philips components, he offered a wiring harness to to make it plug and play, but no rebased bulbs. MEaning that if I had to replace a bulb, I just buy a bulb that are used in all the factory HID systems. I'll be using halogens until he offers another group buy.
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:24 PM
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dko3tgk,

I have the EXACT setup you are looking for!! The driving light uses an H3 bulb (not H1).

The HID's are excellent. Some members tried to discourage me from adding HID's but I had my mind made up. All my cars have ecodes and HID kits and I am happy with the performance.

'92 &'93 500E ecodes will fit your '90 4MATIC and allow you to meet your objective. I purchased mine from PUMA and they are Hellas. I feel that they were worth the money.

Only issues are:
1. The bulb out indicator lamp in dash stays on. I covered it with a piece of electrical tape. I do not need it anyway since I check my lights every week.

2. The HID low beams do not stay on with the high beams. They stay on when flashing though. I chose not to look for a fix.

Hope this helps.
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2003, 01:11 AM
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did you find it worth it to have the driving lights?

Thanks for the info and support DeeBee.

I have a question for you. Since you did the exact conversion I want to do. Do you find the pencilbeams as hi beams useful? Do you find yourself using them alot?

I'm still considering just going with the Depo/TYC 300E euros, with fogs instead of pencil beams. Cost is still playing a factor.

With the HID in your low beams, do you feel the need to use your hi beams often? Or not that often? While I know it's partly relative to your normal driving conditions, I was just wondering that since you had crazy bright HID's as low beams now, if you feel the need to use your hi beams?

$100+ more for the 500E lights is alot for a feature I may not use that often.

Others with the conversion feel free to chime in.

Or those with the 300E euros and HID without hi beams. Do you miss it?

Thanks
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2003, 09:22 AM
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A lot of mbshop people got their Depos from here. They have good prices.

$249 a pair.

http://www.importvision.com/PickAccessories.php?PartMake=Mercedes
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2003, 12:43 AM
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dko3tgk,

Frankly, I do not use my high/pencil beams much but I do find them useful. Generally, the only time I am forced to use them is when when flashing someone or when on really dark country roads and I want to see a lot farther ahead.

The HID's are just AMAZING. I would never have it any other way especially because generally I do not blind oncoming traffic due to the ecode light output design.

I agree that the 500E ecodes are costly and if I were to do this over again I would still buy them over 300E ecodes.

I had initially purchased my HID kit for my Subaru Legacy. I lost high beam capability on the Subaru which proved to be frustrating on many occasions. (The Subaru also did not have ecodes so I know glare was a problem and the light pattern was not nearly half as good as it is on the Benz).

Given the choice between fogs and high beams, I would rather have high beams. Just my $.02.
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2003, 05:14 PM
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what are the part #'s for the 500E Hella euros?

Can anyone tell me the part #'s for the 500E pre-'94 Hella euros for the W124?

I'm trying to get a price quote from a guy in Germany, but he says he doesn't think that the 300E and 500E Hellas are different.

If someone could supply me with the part #'s I would appreciate it. I may get lucky and he may be able to price them lower than PUMA.

thanks
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  #14  
Old 11-22-2003, 02:36 AM
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dko3tgk,

The part numbers on my invoice from PUMA are:

210-54371 - Left headlight
210-54381 - Right headlight

I'm not sure if these are the entire part numbers. My guess is that there is a 124 prefix missing from the numbers.
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90 MB 200E

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  #15  
Old 12-11-2003, 06:31 PM
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what I decided on.

So I went for the big money.

500E Hella lights.
D2S OEM Hid components: Osram 4100k D2S bulbs adn Hella ballasts, with Caspers H4 HID glare shields
Clear corners, clear lens, not prism
H3 PIAA Xtreme White 85 watt bulbs. 85 actual wattage, not 55-->85. For the pencil beams.
Generic smoked and red taillamps.

HID kit already arrived, waiting for the 500E lights corners and tails to come from Germany. H3 bulbs are currently backordered.

I wanted to take pictures of the lights from behind the wheel of: stock, vs. E-Code w/halogen vs. HID with E-code. But since the HID kit is already there I'll probably just have stock vs. HID with E-code.

I'll post here when I finish the install, and have the pictures. It might be a few weeks, the shipping from Germany is supposed to be 1-2 weeks.

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