Windows go down when locking doors - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MrCjames · #16 03-04-2004, 11:22 AM

I am unable to completely recall the details of the different actions for the convenience/comfort feature but I think that "timing" was part of the program. When the vehicle is locked, and the windows/sunroof are open they will close as long as one of the three tumblers is held in the "lock" position. For safety reasons I believe it was programmed to reverse the operation (open the windows) when an "unlock signal" was received within a certain amount of seconds. I do not recall if the windows were capable of rolling down when the "unlock signal" was received after "X" seconds. I do not believe the vehicle can sit for minutes, even hours after it has been locked and than have the windows respond to the unlock signal.

What I find interesting about 400E’s complaint is that the system appears to be operating in reverse, now is it working in reverse from all three points (drivers/passenger/trunk locks) or from just one point, hmm?

TROVERMAN · #17 03-04-2004, 01:18 PM

I cannot get the feature to respond at all on my 1995 E320 wagon, although it has chrome door handles and the feature is clearly outlined in the owner's manual. It also states in the owners manual that the windows and sunroof will, in fact, respond to the unlock signal at any time and open. One easy way to tell for a fact (besides the chrome strips) if your car has the feature or not is to pull up the seat cushion and carpet directly behind the driver and see if there is a fairly good size black box with lots of wires in it. This is the comfort / convenience module.

About my problem, the alarm system is a little messed up--it only truly functions properly from the tailgate lock. The driver's door will neither arm or disarm it, and the pass lock arms the alarm upon UNLOCKING--ie, backwards, like the problem with the windows operating backwards. Are the two related?

pentoman · #18 03-04-2004, 02:49 PM

Interesting, worth bearing in my mind it could be because it thinks there is (or there is) a jam stopping the window going up.

Might be worth having a listen to see if it tries to drive up, then decides to put them down.

Alternatively, try a module from another car would rule that out.

Then I guess, start looking at wiring

good luck

Rusty

MrCjames · #19 03-04-2004, 02:51 PM

Could be, the alarm "function test" can be utilized to set your diagnostic compass, is it a door lock or is it something that requires more investigating. What I have seen happen on occasion is that door tumblers get replaced without realizing the difference between left/right. If the right side tumbler is installed on the left side of the vehicle then the alarm will "arm/disarm" opposite of the intended design. What remains in question is what affect will it have on the comfort system? Will the windows go up when they should be going down? I have yet to look at the wiring diagram so I am uncertain at this moment to know how it would react to a reversed signal.

Alarm function test: Two front windows down, lock the vehicle from one of the three points but do not hold the key. Give it about 30 seconds, reach in through the open window, unlock the car than open the door. The alarm should activate and than you should be able to disarm the alarm from any of the points that are being tested.

TROVERMAN · #20 03-04-2004, 04:31 PM

In my case the car was originally purchased in the UK before being grey-market imported here. In fact, the [US] side passenger door lock does nothing upon locking, but upon unlocking the alarm light begins flashing. (arms) Relocking disarms the alarm, exactly the opposite of what you want it to do! I wonder if this could be due to the fact that in the UK they drive on the other side of the road and drivers and passenger sides were mixed up. Good point, and thanks. Any idea about why the driver's side does not work for arming / disarming at all? And how do I go about correcting the backwardsness of the pass side lock. Can I just switch the wires?

One last question. Lets say the car is locked, and the alarm is not armed. Then I unlock the passenger side door, the side which is screwed up. The alarm arms. I open the door and the alarm does not sound. I close the door, also nothing. However, if I open any other door, or try to start the car, then the alarm goes off and the lights flash. Any ideas?

400E · #21 03-04-2004, 07:47 PM

Good thoughts, Troverman and MrCjames -- I'll pass these on to my friend with the wayward wagon (300TE)...

MrCjames · #22 03-05-2004, 10:35 AM

Hi Troverman

On your car, will the interior lights come on when you open the passenger door? If not, I would investigate the door switch wiring to ensure the connections are wired correctly. I would need to dig a little more to be of more assistance with the other functional issues, let me know.

Thank You

TROVERMAN · #23 03-09-2004, 03:57 PM

Yes, the int light comes and when the pass door is opened. Also, if the drivers door is open and the passenger door is opened, the little "puddle light" comes on in the driver's door.
I think this is the seat belt relay. My question to you or anyone else who knows about this is, can I just bypass the seat belt relay, and rewire the circuit so that the light comes on when I open the driver's door? I understand the little red flashing seatbelt lights would probably not work.

About my alarm issues. I have solved the problem. Upon removing the lock cylinder in the drivers door because the key was getting sticky going in and out, I noticed it had been replaced and had a little "R" engraved next to the Mercedes symbol. However, I recognized the drivers side is the left side in the US. Pulling out the pass side lock, it had an "L," so I swapped them and now the alarm works perfectly. Very simple to remove and change. I guess both cylinders were replaced, and there was some confusion as to being a UK spec car and US part #'s.

NormanB · #24 03-09-2004, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TROVERMAN
In my case the car was originally purchased in the UK before being grey-market imported here. In fact, the [US] side passenger door lock does nothing upon locking, but upon unlocking the alarm light begins flashing. (arms) Relocking disarms the alarm, exactly the opposite of what you want it to do! I wonder if this could be due to the fact that in the UK they drive on the other side of the road and drivers and passenger sides were mixed up. Good point, and thanks.

Do not want to burst your bubble. I have UK 230 TE ( same arrangement) and both door locks have full function and invoke the 'close windows convenience feature' on demand -so you must have a snag.

Saying that, on occasions ( 2 or 3 times in 9 years) I have had the same symptom as you have described. I put it down to a logic glitch. Otherwise the convenience feature only works to close open windows and sunroof.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Hazen · #25 03-09-2004, 09:15 PM

Steve (400E),

It's good to know Peter D'Bugaha has friends such as you. He needs them ;-)
I think "The Black Hole" simply has a logic problem. If he cycles through the open/close function a few times, it'll fix itself. Sort of like the door locks getting out of sync once in a while.

Either that or, as Dakota mentioned, his wiring might be frayed/fried and he's sending mixed signals to the relay. Relay bad? Could be a contact has welded itself shut, I guess.

Any new developements since the original posting?

Hazen (a fellow 4Maniac)
91 300TE 4Matic
137k mi.

400E · #26 03-10-2004, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hazen
Steve (400E),

It's good to know Peter D'Bugaha has friends such as you. He needs them ;-)
I think "The Black Hole" simply has a logic problem. If he cycles through the open/close function a few times, it'll fix itself. Sort of like the door locks getting out of sync once in a while.

Either that or, as Dakota mentioned, his wiring might be frayed/fried and he's sending mixed signals to the relay. Relay bad? Could be a contact has welded itself shut, I guess.

Any new developements since the original posting?

Hazen (a fellow 4Maniac)
91 300TE 4Matic
137k mi.

Hazen,
Indeed, you've uncovered the true identity of the "Black Hole." Pete has certainly had his share of challenges with this vehicle!

I'll pass on the logic problem theory. I haven't heard about any new developments in the last few days, but I'll check with Pete again and let you know.

Thanks!
Steve

andy day · #27 03-10-2004, 05:39 PM

....My 500E has this feature too !

TROVERMAN · #28 03-11-2004, 04:29 PM

What I meant was that the door locks armed & disarmed the alarm wrongly because when a drivers door lock cylinder is put in to a UK car, of course they drive on the opposite side of the road as opposed to here in the US, so the drivers lock cylinder which was replaced as a UK part was installed into the passenger door, and the US-passenger side cylinder was installed into the US drivers door. When swapped like these were, the alarm functions were backward--when locking the alarm disarmed, when unlocking it armed--Not much fun. I agree with the logic problem--it is the comfort / convenience module under the rear seat behind the driver's (US!) seat in my car which doesn't function. For example, with the front doors open I am supposed to be able to put down the windows, and when I do this all I hear is a click.

Interesting to be actually corresponding with someone in the UK--You probably see a lot of my other favorite cars, Land Rovers.

NormanB · #29 03-11-2004, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by TROVERMAN
What I meant was that the door locks armed & disarmed the alarm wrongly because when a drivers door lock cylinder is put in to a UK car, of course they drive on the opposite side of the road as opposed to here in the US, so the drivers lock cylinder which was replaced as a UK part was installed into the passenger door, and the US-passenger side cylinder was installed into the US drivers door. When swapped like these were, the alarm functions were backward--when locking the alarm disarmed, when unlocking it armed--Not much fun. I agree with the logic problem--it is the comfort / convenience module under the rear seat behind the driver's (US!) seat in my car which doesn't function. For example, with the front doors open I am supposed to be able to put down the windows, and when I do this all I hear is a click.

Interesting to be actually corresponding with someone in the UK--You probably see a lot of my other favorite cars, Land Rovers.

Hi Troverman

Okay understood. I was getting my logic confused ;-)

Yes I see plenty of Landies, but over here they tend to be used by serious off roaders/country folk while the Range Rovers are relegated to cruising Chelsea or the school run.

You may know that Landies are a mainstay of UK Defence Forces mobility and there is always a healthy flow through military disposal auctions to enable cheap purchases or parts cannibilisation.

I have only ever driven one for a four month period on a remote island in the South Atlantic with few roads - it was fun (not)!!

Regards
NormanB

MrCjames · #30 03-25-2004, 02:46 PM

Hi Troverman

I would think that the lock being left or right for a vehicle driven on the left or right side of the road would be irrelevant. Point being is you will lock the vehicle by rotating the key to the driving direction and the unlocking in the reverse direction. The real difference would be reversing the locks/tumblers from right to left-left to right causing the electrical portion to operate in reverse. Lock would be unlock and unlock would be lock therefore causing confusion/conflict within the convenience control system as well as the CL. Not really sure if the locks would be electrically different from the other side of the pond, it doesn’t sound cost effective.

Test by removing the black oval plug on the inside of the door frame above the latch. Disconnect the electrical connection, bridge the brown to yl/bl female connections. The system should arm causing the windows to go up as long as the bridge is in place and the windows should stop as soon as you remove the bridge. If you bridge the brown to gn/yl the opposite should occur, if done fast enough after setting the arm signal the windows should go down. Quick test!!!