Windows go down when locking doors
 

My friend has a '91 300TE. It recently developed an electrical glitch. When he locks the driver's door with the key, all the windows go down. He is aware of the convenience feature where you can open the windows by first turning the key to the 'lock' position and then to the 'unlock' position. This seems to be the opposite of that, however.

He had replaced the convenience relay in the last couple years and is wondering if that's the culprit.

Any thought?
Thanks!

There is no convenience feature on my 1991 300TE, nor any other 124 body car I have ever seen.

My guess is either the year is wrong or the thing is hang-on (aftermarket).

Thanks for the input, Steve.
I double checked and it is a '91. It is a 4-Matic, if that matters. I am pretty sure there have been no aftermarket additions. He's had the car for 5 years and this is a brand-new problem.

For what it's worth, my '93 400E does indeed have the feature that let's me roll the windows down or up with the door key ...

Interesting. This may be something like the fact that I owned a 540i for 3 years and sold it. I bought a E430 and liked the lights staying on when I shut the car down. I bought another 540 and found that the lights will stay on if I set them. SOOOO, for 3 years I had the other car I didn't know they existed.

I can't imagine a 124 car doing this though as there is no auto-up position. There is a auto down position so I could see them doing an auto down. And after my BMW experience I suppose I could have missed such a key operated window operation as I would have no time for it as a function anyway (I presume the function is to allow all the hot air out of a parked car - I ain't got time for that).

I'll try our shop 1991 wagon on Monday, now that you got me all excited.

My 1993 300E has this feature.

I really never use it, but I think if you turn the key to the left and hold it (in the drivers door), all four windows and sunroof will open.

Likewise, if you turn the key to the right and hold it, all the windows and sunroof will close.

Thanks! It is kind of exciting, isn't it, to find a "new" feature like this. I found out quite by accident on my car, since I don't believe it's in the owner's manual. The thing that makes it tricky is that to close the windows when you lock the car, you actually have to turn the key to the UNLOCK position and hold it there for a second or two, and only then will it allow you to close the windows by turning the key to LOCK (and holding it there).

In any event, my friend's car's problem is that the windows OPEN when the key is in the lock position -- it's bass ackwards.

If you turn key to the LOCK position, and HOLD it there, all the windows and the sunroof will close until you release the key. To open all the windows (but not the sunroof) you turn the key to the UNLOCK position and HOLD.

I have the reverse of Steve's quirk. I've found that the operation to open the windows doesn't always work correctly, and that sometimes I have to move the key to the LOCK position then quickly to the UNLOCK position and HOLD.

I also have this feature on my '91 300e....it's covered in the owners manual page 30 but only discusses lock / windows up. Dan

So .... any thoughts about why the windows would go DOWN when locking the vehicle?

Thanks in advance,
Steve

Steve, I guess the first question to ask is whether you've had anything related apart or worked on in the past, such as window switches, door locks, door jamb switches, convenience module (N57), etc?

Also, does the passenger side door lock operate in the same manner, ie, the windows go down when you lock and hold the key in the passenger side?

Looking at the schematics, phew, it's complicated! I'd start by looking at all the door jamb switches, comparing them against the schematics, check the grounds, checking the plug(s) into the convenience module, etc.

Our 1990 300TE definitely has that feature. It was certainly available as an option (if not a standard feature) on Aussie W124s back then. My 1990 190E does not have the feature though.

My car has the convenience feature. Steve, it is amusing to me that you are unaware of this feature given your total knowledge of these vehicles. Way to go 400E for stumping a Master!

The convenience (comfort) feature can be easily identified on a 124 chassis by the chrome strip that is attached to the door handle face and tumbler. If the handles have chrome strips than the vehicle should be fitted with the convenience (comfort) feature.

It appears that the feature is working however it seems to be working in reverse, hmm! Are the windows going up when you “unlock” the car?

I just re-cofirmed the operation at the following locations for this feature on my 1991 300e:drivers door lock,passengers door lock. trunk lock. When the doors are all locked and windows are up,turning key to UNLOCK position and holding , unlocks doors and lowers windows. When all windows are down and sunroof is open, turning key to the LOCK position and holding locks doors,trunk,gas lid and closes all windows and the sunroof.I've used this feature alot as its much easier than closing 4 windows and the sunroof from the seperate cabin installed switches.

interesting tid bit
 

I have these convience features on both my S & E, but was stymied why they didn't work when the windows/sun roof are completely closed. It only seems to unlock/unwind when the windows have not been fully closed. Anybody else with this symptom?

Ron

I am unable to completely recall the details of the different actions for the convenience/comfort feature but I think that "timing" was part of the program. When the vehicle is locked, and the windows/sunroof are open they will close as long as one of the three tumblers is held in the "lock" position. For safety reasons I believe it was programmed to reverse the operation (open the windows) when an "unlock signal" was received within a certain amount of seconds. I do not recall if the windows were capable of rolling down when the "unlock signal" was received after "X" seconds. I do not believe the vehicle can sit for minutes, even hours after it has been locked and than have the windows respond to the unlock signal.

What I find interesting about 400E’s complaint is that the system appears to be operating in reverse, now is it working in reverse from all three points (drivers/passenger/trunk locks) or from just one point, hmm?

I cannot get the feature to respond at all on my 1995 E320 wagon, although it has chrome door handles and the feature is clearly outlined in the owner's manual. It also states in the owners manual that the windows and sunroof will, in fact, respond to the unlock signal at any time and open. One easy way to tell for a fact (besides the chrome strips) if your car has the feature or not is to pull up the seat cushion and carpet directly behind the driver and see if there is a fairly good size black box with lots of wires in it. This is the comfort / convenience module.

About my problem, the alarm system is a little messed up--it only truly functions properly from the tailgate lock. The driver's door will neither arm or disarm it, and the pass lock arms the alarm upon UNLOCKING--ie, backwards, like the problem with the windows operating backwards. Are the two related?

Interesting, worth bearing in my mind it could be because it thinks there is (or there is) a jam stopping the window going up.

Might be worth having a listen to see if it tries to drive up, then decides to put them down.

Alternatively, try a module from another car would rule that out.


Then I guess, start looking at wiring :eek:


good luck

Rusty

Could be, the alarm "function test" can be utilized to set your diagnostic compass, is it a door lock or is it something that requires more investigating. What I have seen happen on occasion is that door tumblers get replaced without realizing the difference between left/right. If the right side tumbler is installed on the left side of the vehicle then the alarm will "arm/disarm" opposite of the intended design. What remains in question is what affect will it have on the comfort system? Will the windows go up when they should be going down? I have yet to look at the wiring diagram so I am uncertain at this moment to know how it would react to a reversed signal.

Alarm function test: Two front windows down, lock the vehicle from one of the three points but do not hold the key. Give it about 30 seconds, reach in through the open window, unlock the car than open the door. The alarm should activate and than you should be able to disarm the alarm from any of the points that are being tested.

In my case the car was originally purchased in the UK before being grey-market imported here. In fact, the [US] side passenger door lock does nothing upon locking, but upon unlocking the alarm light begins flashing. (arms) Relocking disarms the alarm, exactly the opposite of what you want it to do! I wonder if this could be due to the fact that in the UK they drive on the other side of the road and drivers and passenger sides were mixed up. Good point, and thanks. Any idea about why the driver's side does not work for arming / disarming at all? And how do I go about correcting the backwardsness of the pass side lock. Can I just switch the wires?

One last question. Lets say the car is locked, and the alarm is not armed. Then I unlock the passenger side door, the side which is screwed up. The alarm arms. I open the door and the alarm does not sound. I close the door, also nothing. However, if I open any other door, or try to start the car, then the alarm goes off and the lights flash. Any ideas?

Good thoughts, Troverman and MrCjames -- I'll pass these on to my friend with the wayward wagon (300TE)...

Hi Troverman

On your car, will the interior lights come on when you open the passenger door? If not, I would investigate the door switch wiring to ensure the connections are wired correctly. I would need to dig a little more to be of more assistance with the other functional issues, let me know.

Thank You:cool:

Yes, the int light comes and when the pass door is opened. Also, if the drivers door is open and the passenger door is opened, the little "puddle light" comes on in the driver's door.
I think this is the seat belt relay. My question to you or anyone else who knows about this is, can I just bypass the seat belt relay, and rewire the circuit so that the light comes on when I open the driver's door? I understand the little red flashing seatbelt lights would probably not work.

About my alarm issues. I have solved the problem. Upon removing the lock cylinder in the drivers door because the key was getting sticky going in and out, I noticed it had been replaced and had a little "R" engraved next to the Mercedes symbol. However, I recognized the drivers side is the left side in the US. Pulling out the pass side lock, it had an "L," so I swapped them and now the alarm works perfectly. Very simple to remove and change. I guess both cylinders were replaced, and there was some confusion as to being a UK spec car and US part #'s.

Do not want to burst your bubble. I have UK 230 TE ( same arrangement) and both door locks have full function and invoke the 'close windows convenience feature' on demand -so you must have a snag.

Saying that, on occasions ( 2 or 3 times in 9 years) I have had the same symptom as you have described. I put it down to a logic glitch. Otherwise the convenience feature only works to close open windows and sunroof.

Hope this helps and good luck.

Steve (400E),

It's good to know Peter D'Bugaha has friends such as you. He needs them ;-)
I think "The Black Hole" simply has a logic problem. If he cycles through the open/close function a few times, it'll fix itself. Sort of like the door locks getting out of sync once in a while.

Either that or, as Dakota mentioned, his wiring might be frayed/fried and he's sending mixed signals to the relay. Relay bad? Could be a contact has welded itself shut, I guess.

Any new developements since the original posting?

Hazen (a fellow 4Maniac)
91 300TE 4Matic
137k mi.

Hazen,
Indeed, you've uncovered the true identity of the "Black Hole." Pete has certainly had his share of challenges with this vehicle!

I'll pass on the logic problem theory. I haven't heard about any new developments in the last few days, but I'll check with Pete again and let you know.

Thanks!
Steve

....My 500E has this feature too !

NormanB---
 

What I meant was that the door locks armed & disarmed the alarm wrongly because when a drivers door lock cylinder is put in to a UK car, of course they drive on the opposite side of the road as opposed to here in the US, so the drivers lock cylinder which was replaced as a UK part was installed into the passenger door, and the US-passenger side cylinder was installed into the US drivers door. When swapped like these were, the alarm functions were backward--when locking the alarm disarmed, when unlocking it armed--Not much fun. I agree with the logic problem--it is the comfort / convenience module under the rear seat behind the driver's (US!) seat in my car which doesn't function. For example, with the front doors open I am supposed to be able to put down the windows, and when I do this all I hear is a click.

Interesting to be actually corresponding with someone in the UK--You probably see a lot of my other favorite cars, Land Rovers.

Re: NormanB---
 

Hi Troverman

Okay understood. I was getting my logic confused ;-)

Yes I see plenty of Landies, but over here they tend to be used by serious off roaders/country folk while the Range Rovers are relegated to cruising Chelsea or the school run.

You may know that Landies are a mainstay of UK Defence Forces mobility and there is always a healthy flow through military disposal auctions to enable cheap purchases or parts cannibilisation.

I have only ever driven one for a four month period on a remote island in the South Atlantic with few roads - it was fun (not)!!

Regards
NormanB

Hi Troverman

I would think that the lock being left or right for a vehicle driven on the left or right side of the road would be irrelevant. Point being is you will lock the vehicle by rotating the key to the driving direction and the unlocking in the reverse direction. The real difference would be reversing the locks/tumblers from right to left-left to right causing the electrical portion to operate in reverse. Lock would be unlock and unlock would be lock therefore causing confusion/conflict within the convenience control system as well as the CL. Not really sure if the locks would be electrically different from the other side of the pond, it doesn’t sound cost effective.

Test by removing the black oval plug on the inside of the door frame above the latch. Disconnect the electrical connection, bridge the brown to yl/bl female connections. The system should arm causing the windows to go up as long as the bridge is in place and the windows should stop as soon as you remove the bridge. If you bridge the brown to gn/yl the opposite should occur, if done fast enough after setting the arm signal the windows should go down. Quick test!!!

O.K., point taken--the situation was that while I could still lock / unlock the car as normal and the central locking system functioned fine, it was the alarm system that didn't. The alarm (when the car was in its previous state) would only arm / disarm correctly from the tailgate lock, which, of course, has no differentiation between left and right. The driver's side (US left) would neither arm nor disarm the alarm when the car was locked or unlocked. However, if the alarm was set off, then it would shut the alarm off if the key was turned in the cylinder. On the pass side, unlocking the door would arm the alarm and locking it would disarm. When this was the case I had a few options. I could just not have the alarm activated and lock and unlock the car from the driver's side. This is primarily what happened until someone ripped a chrome piece of the car and I decided the alarm might add some deterence. Or I could lock / unlock from the tailgate, and everything, including the alarm, would function as prescribed. Of course, I could not use the pass lock at all, because every time I unlocked the car from there the dumb alarm would go off. So when one of the locks was sticking, I just switched the whole lock cylinders in the front door, and---voila! Now the alarm works perfectly. However, the convenience system doesn't work at all. I will do your test to see if the problem is in the lock cylinder or the actual relay module. One clue to the problem is that if I attemtp to operate the rear windows in the car with the key off and both doors closed (or opened) and from the rear switches, I can hear a clicking coming from the unit under the rear seat. So I assume this is the problem.
Sorry for being so long winded.
By the way--just curious to see if American legislation changed any of the options...

On the american model, when the alarm is set off, do the headlights and taillights flash and the horn honks, or is it the parking lights and horn?

On mine I can operate the sunroof, seats, radio, power steering wheel, and all windows without the key in as long as one of the front doors are open. (At least I am supposed to be able to...)

Does the American model operate in the same way?
Thanks

Have any of you who have a newer car (with remote lock / unlock) (I have a 1999 w210) noticed that pressing and holding the unlock button will open all the windows and close the windows when keeping the lock button depressed?? I think it is kinda cool. can open my windows from 30 ft. away (atleast)

Steinar

Even 1994-95 w124's (probably earlier as well) when equipped with the infared remote system had this feature. My car does not have a factory remote, but the owners manual states that this feature was an option.

I am adding an aftermarket keyless system and hope to add this feature in. It is pretty cool. What's cooler is the feature on the new Range Rover (probably S-Class too) which has rain sensing wipers and automatically closes all windows / sunroof if rain is detected!

If I recall correctly the headlamps, park lamps (front and rear), plus the alarm horn were all cycled during alarm activation.

The early (90-93) convenience systems were designed with "timed operations," the 94-95 may be slightly different. I believe one of the timed operations allowed the interior window switches to operate the windows. Incorporating a front door open signal for window operation seems to ring a bell on the 94-95 models, not 100% certain. The electric seats, the interior & entrance lamps, plus telescopic steering should be operational with either front door open.

Let me know how the test works out for you and in the mean time, I will dig through my info. :cool: