What parts bring back solid "as new" ride on 400E?
 

Hello,

I have a 93 400E and have noticed that I have lost the tight, no rattle under the car ride that I had back in 96 when I bought the car with 44k miles on it.
I now have 158k miles and would like to know if there are some bushing or suspension parts that could be replaced to make the car ride better.

I will give you an example of the feel. I drove a 2001 BMW 330Ci with 64k miles on it and it felt so solid and quiet over bumps. Now this car had 17" wheels on it where as mine is stock 15"s

You guys have driven new cars before and felt how tight and "put together" they felt. I would like to get that back on my car.

What parts can replace to acheive this as I know it can be done as the car felt this way before. My shop says that the shocks and strut are fine and are not in need of replacement. All I can think of are maybe bushing that act as cushions between part.

Please lend me your expertise on this.


Thanks,


Duron

Short of a complete suspension rebuild it's tough to point out any single cause, however, worn tires loose their ability to damp out high frequency road input and the car slowly becomes more harsh as the tires wear and harden. Bushings also slowly harden and degrade, but a complete suspension rebuilt is a very expensive proposition.

If your tires are well worn a new set will often noticeably improve ride quality by reducing harshness. Since the original fitment was 65 series touring tires, lower profile high performance tires will almost always cause increased ride harshness.

The deCarbon type shocks usually maintain their damping characteristics until end of life as evidenced by oil leaking.

Duke

Thanks Duke, but it is not so much of a harsh ride, but a loose clanky feeling ride. You think bushings could be the culprit or shocks/struts?


duron

What make, model, size tire? OE wheels? What are the current alignment settings, front and rear?

Duke

I think you'd get the most and economical "bang for your buck" from a new steering damper and a tie rod ends.

If you haven't done your front and rear sway bar bushings, do those. Easy and not expensive.

Not a direct ride quality improvement, but when taking a corner or negotiating road transitions, the improveent is quite satisfying.

Haasman

I'd start with the shocks. Even Bilsteins don't last forever! The only factory-approved method for testing them involves removing them and doing a number of measurements on the bench. You can't tell by bouncing the car up and down, and the absence of oil leaks doesn't really prove anything either.

If that doesn't do it, replace the subframe bushings.

Thanks guys for all of the responses. I feel great because they are different thing that I can replace and help the handling of the car as well.


Duke, I have a 400E with OE wheels and tires. I do not know the alignment numbers, but would imagine that it is based on factory spec.

Duron

I was trying to make a point, but I think you missed it. You have a relatively high mileage car and probably have no idea what the alignment is or when it was last checked. This thread has offered at least a thousand dollars in recommended work, but not one red cent on diagnosis.

Find out something about the tires installed on the car - make, model, size, speed rating. Are they a quality tires suitable for a 400E or Pep Boys specials? Do they exhibit any abnormal wear?
All you have to do is bend down and look at them!

Find a quality alignment shop and have the four wheel alignment checked and corrected as necessary. A good alignment tech should check for abnormal tire wear, deteriorated bushings and any other problems in the steering and suspension. Figure on spending about $75-$150 for the alignment and inspection. Any other necessary repairs will add to the price. Pay particular attention to the front and rear anti-roll bar bushings as they are known to deteriorate, but changing then is not a high cost job.

I haven't got the foggiest idea what a "clanky ride" means. Try to give the alignment tech a bit more understandable explanation of the symptoms, and also have him drive the car so you can point out the problems.

Duke

It is impossible to diagnose your car via the internet. I do fully expect that you need to replace the shocks with a new set of Bilstiens. Beyond that, you need to get underneath the car and exercise the four P's, Push, Pull, pry and prod. Do this on all suspension members and joints to look for looseness.

Replacing parts just because this might be the problem, or others have had those parts replaced with good results is a poor approach. That is like the doctor giving you medicine based on his examination of another patient.

Diagnose before replacing parts. Even if you have to have this done by a professional (what a novel idea) it will save you money because you won't be replacing parts unnecessarily.

Also, don't try to compare your car to some other make and model. They are different animals. Even when driving two different cars of the same make and model they will feel different.

I have recently done a few things to my 124 car and had a four wheel alignment. The car now drives as good as it did when I bought it 200,000 miles ago, so I know you can be successful.

Hope this helps,

My guess is a good part to replace and its fairly cheap would be the steering damper and new tie rod ends..

While i agree you should get a diagnosis before trying to fix something, just for the record, someone posted an article recently where they replaced all of the bushings, and I think, but am not sure, also the shocks on their 400e. the cost was about $1500 and they had the job done by a tech. If you really want “as new” that would be the way. If you wanted to go one better, you could employ a variety of nice enhancements, such as using the sway bars (and bushings) from a 500e along with Bilstiens HD shocks, as opposed to Bilstiens comfort shocks, which are standard. Adding these would be about $200 for the mix (for the sway bars and bushings) and you would be thrilled with the results. I think this also included a 4 wheel alignment. Check with the local indies. You can buy the parts at a substantial savings here and have your favorite tech do the work.

Thanks guys.

Duke, I did miss your point. On the car are Michelin MVX4 205 60 15s. I will get the four wheel alignment as I am not sure when that was last done. The clanky ride I have is whenever I go over a small pot hole or speed bump, there is a dampened "bump bump" sound under the car near the wheels as if something is bumping another part.

Trust me, my shop will be the one to look at this as I am not mechanically inclined under the car or the hood.

Larry,

It is good to know that you were able to get your car back to glory at 200k. That lets me know that with the proper parts that I is possible.


Thanks again guys,


druon

Your description sounded just like mine did before my work during the holidays. Even the smalles pothole or speed bump rattled the car and sounded like it was at the wheels. I did the bounce on the fender test and the shocks felt fine.

However as my car had almost 150,000 miles and with the suggestions of members on this site I replaced all four shocks/struts. Out of the car - the shocks had almost no compression - so much for the test noted above. It took me most of a day (this was my first job on the 300E) but what a difference it made. If you do it yourself - spray the bolts a day before to make the removal reasier.

I have since replaced the brakes and am about finished with replacing the rear suspension parts (need a tool for the rear tie rods). But the shocks alone made a big difference - the rest is to bring the suspemsion back as i am giving the car to my daughter in another year.

Guys,

I went through ALL of my service records and found that I HAVE NEVER HAD SHOCKS OR STRUTS REPLACED!!! I have 158k on the car.

Now, here is the big question. I have seen many post on this site as well as others that mention going with Bilstien shocks. I have spoken with a shop out in cali that does nothing but repair and upgrade mercedes and they recommend sticking with stock shock and strut which I think are a bilstien brand.

Let me know what you guys think as I also would like to go with H&R springs to lower the car a bit. With that in mind. What do you suggest for shocks and struts?


Thanks again. needless to say new shocks and struts are in the near future!


Duron

I changed my rear shocks at 240K km (150k miles), the shocks were completely gone, press the old shock, it compresses but it takes forever to rebound, this can not be detected with the rebound test when shocks are in the car, I would definitely replace shock at that mileage.

I used Bilstein comforts. The sports are too firm for my taste. I think Bilstein makes the OEMs, no?

Anyway, my car did sit just a bit higher with the new shocks.

Not too hard a job.

I went with the comfort shocks as well and enjoy the ride.

OF COURSE THE SHOCKS WILL BE WEAK AT THIS MILEAGE! I should have been more clear. My four P's in the case of this car would be to disconnect a shock or two. That's the only way to test them.

In the old days on domestic cars, shocks didn't last long and they were cheap, so you just replaced them. A set of Bilstiens (OEM equivalent shocks) cost over $300 these days. For that reason I stand by my suggestion to diagnose before you just start throwing money at the car.

It absolutely amazes me that there are people that think that the diagnosis for one vehicle automatically applies to another.

Have a great day,

Tonight my car has hit the 179,000 mark! In my service records it shows that i have not had my shocks or struts replaced.. What will i notice in the ride of my car when i replace these parts? Is it possible that these parts are still in good working order after nealry 180k of driving??

I agree with Larry!

You really got to assess the suspension. My W123 was great except it had worn-out brake rod supports which is rare for a W123.

I know the end-links are $7-10 each and ussually don't last too long. But, I would either have a MB familar suspension person make a suggestion or rebuild most of it.

I've done complete re-works and replaced all the rubber parts and it does make a HUGE difference on a 10-15 year old car. But I'm not into just throwing money at it. You might get away really cheap=0)

Michael

Sachs made mine. A lot of people assume that Bilstein makes all the shocks for Mercedes and BMWs but not necessarily so.

Yep,

Not too many bright orange shocks under benzs... Just look. I think Finchle and Sachs was quite common. I put them on my W123 and they were fine after 100k miles. I figured 175,000 miles was pretty darn good for the orginals.


Micahel

How much of a job is it to do the struts aall around the car? does the whole brake assmbley have to come off the car? any special tools? Any little tips of not to do's? Also does the car need to be re aligned for any reason after the replacement?

I have recently gone thru your exact scenario on my 300E w/ 145 on the clock. Read thru the attched thread which highlights the HD Bilstein dilemma, installation etc.. I feel they are the best feeling strut out there, especially if you are comparing to a BMW. I also did Sportline Swaybars front/rear, and now the entire package is great. Not to stiff at all, just rigth. Good luck.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-benz-performance-paddock/78393-struts-hds-do-they-really-raise-car.html?highlight=bilstein+hds

FQ

Can anyone list all suspension parts AND bushing that could be replaced that affect/improve ride? I have gone over all of my service history since I have owned the car at 44K and hardly none have been replaced. I have 158k on it now and would like to "freshen up" everthing all at once.

I would like to do this along with new shock/struts (Bilsteins or OEM?) and H&R springs (for lowering.)

Other parts that have been replaced are:

1/04 drag link (tie rod)
7/99 idle arm bushing and steering arm bushing
7/98 rt front wheel bearing was replaced but lft front was repacked only.

That is it.

I am also considering 500E front and rear swaybars.

For tires and wheels, its AMG monoblock II 17X7.5 ET 35 with Michelin 17/ 205/ 17s

But of course, if you experts have sone other suggestions for this set up please throw them in.

Thanks,


Duron

I would try asking a shop forum member called gsxr.

That guy has all the info on suspension info for W124's.

I think he also has charts on this stuff that will blow your mind.

duron,

Unless completely worn out to a point of rattling, no replacement suspension parts will have anything to do with ride except shocks. Even worn ball joints, control arm bushings, etc, if replaced will have no effect.

The 500E bars are QUITE stiff. The sportline bars and springs would accomplish the lowering and stiffening and are very well priced at your dealer. I have a list of all the part numbers if you would like it.

Since you are considering this, you need to know and make mental note of the shock differences. When you go to the shorter springs, you MUST use the correct shocks. The sportline shocks will work and also the Bilstien Sport shocks are designed for the shorter travel suspension. Don't use Bilstien heavy duty or comfort with the short springs. They are too long and not valved for the short travel.

One other recommendation. Don't mix bars. Use a front and rear pair that work well together. You REALLY need to pay attention to the rear bar you put on because it is a BIG job to snake it in. You have to disconnect the subframe mounts and lower the ENTIRE suspension to get the rear bar in place. Been there, done that. If you're not equipped to do this safely, pay to have it done. It would be dangerous without the right equipment.

Suginami,

When are you in Dallas this month. I hope to finish the project I'm working on this week and might be available to run over there the evening you're in town.

Have a great day,

I am arriving late in the evening on Monday, March 29.

I will be in meetings all day on Tuesday, and have that evening available for dinner.

We could invite others and meet at another steak house if you'd like.

Here's the thread where freestyler replaced all the bushings on his 124...


http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/tech-help/49246-w124-getting-all-new-bushings-control-arms.html

Paul,

Sounds great! Before I put this in my calendar, could you confirm that Tuesday night is the night you have in mind for dinner? It's hard for me to know my schedule that far down the road, but I expect to be home. If I am, I will definitely be there.

It would be great to get together as many folks as we can.

Have a great day,