Duke

Having worked for two German manufacturers (Region Manager) in my prior life, your comments about the allocation vs available is quite accurate. The US division would plan with AG and then commit to number of models and their options. These translated into “fair shares” to each dealership depending on their run-rates (sales). There were always a small amount “pool” cars that were held in reserve for various reasons.

The concept of a 5-spd 300E in the US wasn’t well accepted. The US buyer generally equated four-door German luxury cars ($) as automatics. It wasn’t until the word got out on the performance of the 300E’s that the manual transmissions started to be accepted, but always in very low numbers. The same held true for the BMW 733/735 series. Only a very minor fraction were brought in with manuals, although interestingly enough, more than the 124 series.

Porsche wanted to re-supply an automatic in the 911 series to broaden its appeal. Porsche did offer a semi-automatic gearbox in the early days of the 911 although it never sold well because you did have to shift the transmission but the clutch was eliminated. As the prices of the cars crept towards $100k (Turbo Cabriolets for an example) more buyers wanted automatics. There were real hard discussions whether the development costs could be justified in the sell content. It wasn’t until almost a decade later that Porsche decided to offer the Tiptronic transmission. Even today though, it lags behind the manuals.

Haasman

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'03 E320 Wagon-Sold
'95 E320 Wagon-Went to Ex
'93 190E 2.6-Wrecked
'91 300E-Went to Ex
'65 911 Coupe (#302580)

I suppose this is a little off topic but I've seen this a lot - everyone points to the mid-90s as beginning of the decline. The 140 body was in the middle of a run in the mid-90s and did not change much. The C-class was in the middle of a run and didn't change much. Same for the 129 - didn't change much then. The only thing that really changed in the mid-90s was the end of the 124 and start of the 210. Was the 124 that good or the 210 that bad?

Mid nineties is just an approximation and depends on the model.

I was definitely NOT impressed with the (1994) C-class. With a six-cylinder engine it was about 450 pounds heavier than my car, and its styling was jelly bean generic. I recall a friend of mine (who lived in Germany at that time) told me it looked like a Honda from the back. Not that it would have made a difference, but the 2.8 six was not available in the US with a manual tranmission. I think the 2.4 six was, but given the extra weight it was slower than my car. I didn't consider that progress!

Depending on your point of view the 201 is a 7/8 scale 124 or the 124 is a 1 1/8 scale 201. Both concepts were born in the late seventies energy crisis, so Mercedes emphasized efficiency, which began with low weight and good aerodynamics. Personally, I prefer the smaller size of the 201 but the 300E has better weight distribution and is a bit quicker than a 201/six. I consider both to be the best four-door sedans ever built in their respective size classes. They blend a combination of efficiency, performance, handling, and ride comfort that is unmatched in today's overweight and over-gizmoed cars, and the Bruno Sacco styling is instantly recognizable as a Mercedes and won't be confused with generic jelly bean sedans.

If you like big cars the 126 is tough to beat. I recently rode in a friend's '87 560SEL with 160K miles. Hadn't been in that car for a long time, but I it was tight, smooth, and stable. Dave likes the car. (no wonder, it drives GREAT!) I told him to get the A/C fixed and whatever else is wrong and keep driving it.

The old adage: "They don't make 'em like that anymore" definitely applies to these cars.

If you can find a low mileage well maintained example on any of these cars - pay top dollar for it. You wont' regret it! Sure they have a few problems (valve seals/guides) and some things can be expensive to fix (A/C evaporator and HVAC controls), but the cost to fix most of the known "problems" is less than the sales tax on a new one. The basic mechanical systems - engine and drivetrain, chassis and body are very robust, and MB Tex is the most durable car interior material ever devised by man.

Duke

What an amazing car. Light years ahead of anything else from 1986 and no slouch by todays standards what so ever.
I challenge anyone to find a better car in that price range.
For example, comparable Honda would be a 10 yr old civic or 12 yr old Accord. Not a terrible car but small, not as fast or quiet, not as safe and not nearly as solid on the road.

One of the last MB's you can work on yourself.

The guy I bought it from is a trip. He has 10 cars, including two 123's, five fintails and two 108's. He was really upset about selling this 300E but at least he knows he's first in line if I sell it.

What a virus I am catching. I'm up to four cars and I was even contemplating keeping the 4.5 and mounting a gun turret on it and painting it camaflouge grey, or something. I could be useful for going into rough neighborhoods and parking it in the city without reserve.

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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

so they got a 2.6li engine, stuffed it into the new C-class and called it a C240 - now that's progress!

i appreciate the following in my 5speed manual 190e2.6:

* you can achieve top speed in either 4th or 5th gears, which is either drag-limited or governor-limited in 4th (i.e., below the redline). This means that, depending on your mood, or the presence of riced-out Civics, you can choose either of the two for a top-speed run

* it also means that you can safely downshift from 5th to 4th at any speed without concern for exceeding the redline on downshift

* my concern is not so much on fuel economy, but more on internal engine wear and tear. Looking at the transmission ratios of a 190e2.6 automatic, it seems that the 4th gears of both the manual and auto versions have the same final ratios (i.e., rpm vs road speed).

Considering that the engine is designed for normal wear and tear using 4th gear for cruising, it gives me that reassuring feeling that I am imposing less wear and tear on the engine than normal when I cruise in 5th. Sometimes, I drop to 4th to do an "Italian tuneup", though ...

* i can practice my heel-and-toe downshifting ...

And I also appreciate the MBTex interior.

Don't underestimate the new V-6's. I think the 103 was a great engine, but these new V engine is an absolute masterpiece.

I got a chance to see one apart. It wasn't that long ago when the technology in these engines was Formula One stuff. They have cross bolted mains, cold cracked rods, short skirt pistons with two spark plug technology that prevents rocking, roller cam followers, and an incredibly strong open deck design that uses a very well developed alloy cylinder material.

I could go on. Yes, they did use a little smaller engine in the C240 than previously used, but the performance is very comparable, and remember the 2.6 is giving up displacement, what do you expect?

Additionally these engines have been out several years now and no acchilles heels have been uncovered.

I like a straight six as much as anyone, but cars are getting smaller, especially in Europe. In Europe a C Class is a larger than average car. The roads are so narrow, not to mention the parking spaces, that they have to build a good small car. You can just put more power in a smaller engine compartment with a V6 or V8.

The thread started about 300E Five speeds. I have one and I love it, but sitting in the drivers seat it is not in the same league as my C Class.

To the fuel mileage issue, the C Class is EPA rated very close to the 300E, I think the C was also 27, but it consistently gets 29 on the highway on long trips and sometimes tops 30. My best was on an Interstate highway trip from Texas to the other end of Tennessee and it did real close to 31 going and coming.

Have a great day,

I agree that the current V-6 engines have some very excellent design and construction features. They also have better torque bandwidth than the 103s, but the V-configuration yields a second order rocking couple that the I-6 configuration is free of.

When the C-class was first introduced in '94 it had the iron block twin-cam I-6 and the 450 lbs weight gain offset the increase in power. The V-6 cut weight, but I still think the new C-class is generic looking.

Our late eighties cars were grossly overpriced when new, but they priced them based on what the market would bear. Daimler-Benz made literally billions in the US market in the seventies and eighties. They used the profits to buy up a good part of the German aerospace industry, then watched the value of those investments tumble along with the Berlin wall.

Duke

If there's any harmonic present with the V6, I sure can't feel it in my car. This engine is so vibration and noise free I don't think it could be any better unless it had an electric motor.

As far as looks go, I have NEVER, EVER bought a Benz or any other car for that matter, based on looks. That's not what a Benz is about. In fact IMHO I think they make some of the ugliest cars ever made.

My 300E is a really great car, but I alternate driving my 300E and my C240. The C is smooth, quiet, docile but feels faster than it really is. When I get out of the C into the 124 car, I feel like I'm getting into a pickup truck by comparison.

It's hard for me to say this without sounding like a 124 basher. I'm not. The 124 is a fabulous automobile, for my taste most especially with a manual transmission. But this the year of our Lord 2004. Science and technology has marched on. The 203 car reflects these advancements quite well.

I did not go from a 123 directly to a 124 car. I drove a 210 between that time. I think the 124/210 difference is not that significant in the drivers seat. The difference was greatest from the 123 to the 124/210 and then from the 124/210 to my 203 car. That's really quite remarkable when you consider that the 203 is considerably smaller than the 124/210 cars.

My $0.02,

Larry,

For me, having driven a 115 diesel for almost twelve years, it sure is a joy to get in that 124. Welcome me to the 80's.
I would say the same thing about the 124: smooth, quiet, docile, faster than it really is. That feeling is what the current generation has in common with the models from the 80's IMHO. As it was sitting in a 70's Benz, you could feel the ties to the 60's models.

What literature can you recommend for DIY activity? I'm sure there are factory books, but is that 300E Bible any good? I'd rather have MB published manuals, if its all the same.

Thanks again.

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63 220S W111
76 300D W115
2013 VW JSW TDI M6

previously-
73 280 SEL 4.5
86 300E 5 speed
2010 VW Jetta TDI M6

If you're talking about Stu Ritters book, save your money. It has only a few original articles that don't apply to most owners. The rest of it is a compilation of in some cases original and in some cases lightly edited general factory information.

I think that your best bet for most all DIY issues, you found what you're looking for when you logged onto this site.

As far as your 124 experience goes, you skipped a generation by going from a 115 to a 124. The difference between the next skip as I described, is equally dramatic.

I hope you enjoy your manual 300E as much as I've enjoyed mine. I recently started a campaign to get it back in better shape. I just got a new windshield that it needed badly and have done some various other things. I expect to polish and wax and scrub up the interior in a few weeks when I get a chance and good weather.

I have moved to my C Class as my regular driver, but I hope to always have my 124 sweetheart ready for the road any time I want to use it.

Enjoy,

I have driven one W123 turbodiesel before, but is was several years before I purchased my W124, so the memory of its driving and handling characteristics are too far removed to make a good comparison to my W124.

However, my boss purchased a W210 E320 brand new in 2002, and I took it for a test spin, and I was absolutely flabergasted. It was hard to see the improvement between it and my W124 E320.

The driving position was almost identical. The seats had nearly the same feel. The only difference was that it felt maybe 5-10% quieter than mine. The rack and pinion steering was noticeable. It had a completely different feel than that of our recirculating ball. It was also significantly over-boosted to my taste. The gas pedal also required less input. It was very soft compared to my mine. I attribute the gas pedal feel and the over-boosted steering as a reaction to Lexus.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the improvement from my W124 to the W210 was so small as to barely be noticeable. I guess I expected bigger leaps, like what Larry Bible describes that were achieved from the W123 to the W124.

I can also point out that my mother owned a W202 C220, and it had exactly the same feel as my W124, but with a lot less power.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".