front end shake @ 55-65 mph
 

Hello all! I have my beloved wagon. Today I replaced the steering damper and checked the torque on the wheel bearings (12 lb/ft). Friday I had the wheels balanced and they said that the tires are good. I hopped in to take my wife to the movies (Starsky and Hutch, for the Torino) and it came back, only not nearly as bad. The shop also told me that the front end looked tight to them. I tried the 4 p's earlier and all appeared well to me. I need some ideas. Im almost thinking that its the ball joints. Straight line driving, I get "the shake" at 55-65 mph. When going around corners and such, "the Shake" disappears. This is what keeps me up at night. Any tips, help, ideas, sugestions, anything would be of great help. Thanks in advance.

D. Herman

1990 300TE
1993 300SE
1994 Chevy S-10 (Wife's Truck)

It could be the drag link. I had an intermittent vibration that would go away when I changed lanes. Grab the drag link (the steering damper bolts to this) and check for play. There should not be much.

Since you've already checked to see that everything is tight, I think it's time to swap tires front to rear and then drive it to see if the problem remains.

A very high percentage of such problems trace back to tire/wheel problems. Remember the SOURCE of vibration has to be something that rotates, loose linkage, bad shocks and things such as that only AMPLIFY such vibration, find the source first.

Even though the wheels were balanced, there still could be wheel/tire related problems such as a broken tire belt, a stiff spot in the tire or a bent wheel. Swapping them front to rear is the quickest and most positive way to check.

Hope this helps,

My car also had an intermittant vibration,,, it took the dealership 4 times to align the damn car correctly,, WHAT A PAIN...

the drag link? could it be any bushings? and this isnt hurting much, i need to do alot of freeway driving.

Any play in the steering can cause a resonate vibration. For some reason they always seem to come at those speeds. The act of cornering forces and holds the play to one side and deminishes the resonance.

The 124 car has good control arm bushings. If you were talikng about a 126, 140, 202, or 210 chassis I would blame the lower control arm bushings as they are pattern failures.

so then it would sound like a drag link to you? i hope i can find one on sunday!

Your original post suggested that the front end had been checked for play. Based upon that and that we are talking a 124 car (I think) I had no recommendations.

A drag link should be one of the easier forms of play to check. I wouldn't think they would miss it if play was checked for. Something has to give.

Re: front end shake @ 55-65 mph
 

Front wheel bearings should not have preload. They should have free play. The W201 spec is .01 to .02 mm, and I suspect the 124 is the same.

"Incurable" wheel balance problems are usually caused by tire out of round or radial force variation. When it's spinning on the balance machine I always view across the top to the tread to get a feel for runout, and it should be less than about 1 mm.

My suggestion is to find a shop that has a Hunter 9700 that can test the tires for runout/radial force variation. If they are out of spec you should be able to get an "adjustment" from the tire manufacaturer if they still have one-half of the usable tread left, but this varies with manufacturer.

I think you can find a local tire dealer with a 9700 from the following web site.

www.gsp9700.com

Duke

Re: front end shake @ 55-65 mph
 

Duke is right! Often the procedure is to seat the races by torquing to about 12 lb-ft while spinning, then with the wheel stopped, loosen and set finger-tight. Resulting adjustment should leave a small end-play. Else the bearings will heat up quickly and bind, then destroy themselves.

Steve

To check ball joints the front of the car should be resting on jack stands. Then use a floor jack under the end of the control until the vehicle just starts to lift off the floor jack. Then use a pry bar between the ground and the bottom of the tire and see if you get any movement at the ball joint.

Vibrations are caused by thing rotating, and looseness in parts will transmit vibrations. Even if the tire is "perfectly" balanced road feel can be transmitted thru the front suspension and if there is looseness you'll feel it.

Wheel bearings are set to 0.01-0.02 mm play. There are a few hueristics that can be used to get there. One is that the washer behind the lock screw should be somewhat stiff, but should turn with a screwdriver. Rocking the wheel at 12 and 6 and there should be a very small amount of play.

I'd check you front end again, make sure the wheel bearings aren't too tight. Rotate the tires to see if you can isolate the problem.

I'll throw my 2 cents and 30 years MB experience in with Larry Bible on this one. I've seen many internal tire problems that can only be verified by a tire swap. Many times old tires look new but are separating inside due to age. Look at the production date on the side of the tires.

Let us know who was right when you solve the problem. There is a lot of testosterone riding on this one.:D

Peter

First:Shake like that could be caused by wheels being out of ballance. I believe it's important that it be done on a computerized system IE: Hunter Balancer. Second: the suspension (tie rods etc) need to be inspected. Third: Bad wheel aligntment can cause different types of weird tire wear that can cause vibration in the steering wheel.

Abnormal wear in the tires can vary. I had vibration in the steering wheel on another car and went through the whole process. As it turns out the wheels were out of alignment and caused wear that was not visually obvious. I can't remember the term but each tread block was worn slightly uneven from front to back. The only way you could notice it was by running your hand lightly across the top of the tire from front to back. You could feel an edge at the begining of each block. Conversely a correct tire would feel smooth. You could feel it but you couldn't see it.

A wheel alignment and moving the tires to the rear solved my problem but not untill I spent $$$ doing everything else. The people ballancing my tires didn't even think of this.

As far as special stuff to check on MB ????

Stubman, I think the term is "feathering".

Actually I was told something else, because feathering is associated with outside to inside uneven wear and is usually visually appearent. This was from front to back on each block.

Who knows you may be right??

Feathering or sawtoothing is what its called and it should be visually apparant too (maybe you have to be used to looking at tires).

This was diffenetly visually appearent, but saw or feather sounds like a good description. After I went through all other options I had a Bridgestone rep. inspect the tires. This is what he pointed out to me and no other garage noticed it. These are High End performance tires, Pole Position SO3 and my suspension on my Talon is very stiff, so it maybe more sensitive than standard suspension.

i changed the centre link and its gotten better, but not entirely gone. im thinking about taking it to a 9700 equipped shop to see what they say about the tyres, which by the way are michelin vxrt+ or whatever. that is gonna happen later this week. ill keep you all posted.

ps. does anyone know about a drivers side fender for sale for a 1986-1991 300E or TE? any help is once again appreciated.

i can also comprehend that rotating parts cause a vibration. im hoping though, that i dont have to buy new tyres yet. these ones have a lot of tread left. that being said, i need my highway cruiser back! the s-10 is not the same as the mercedes feel!

does anyone have a suggestion about good tyres? i like the brand michelin, but will try something else if anyone has had better luck with a different brand. what were OEM tyres anyway?

The owners manual actually lists the OEM tires. Michelin MXV4 are probably the highest recommended by dealers & indys for hours of long, smooth cruising. They are $$$ and many have tried alternatives, i.e. Bridgestone Turanza LS-H, Continential, Kumho, ... My biggest complaint with the Michelin's once they wear down some (WAY above the wear bars) they don't handle well in wet weather. A big trade off.

I run Michelin MXV4 Plus V-rated tires on our 1991 300CE and 1992 300E and H-rated tires on our 1998 E320 because I like the ride and handling. On the two 300CE's I inflate the tires to 32psi - front and 36psi - rear. The local indy swears that Michelin is the only company that makes a "round" tire that he can balance and road test without any vibration.

You stated in your first post that you already had the tires balanced so I think you are throwing your money away by paying extra for a 9700 balance. That machine only shines when regular balancers can't detect imperfections in the plies of high speed tires. The faster a tire spins the more it wants to expand in diameter due to centrifugal force. High speed tires have like a band around them that prevents this from happening. If there is a problem in this band, a regular balancer win't pick it up, because it doesn't spin fast enough. The tire will balance fine on the machine, but go out of balance at high speeds. A 9700 will pick this up. One of the balancers I use is a Snap-On that you spin the wheel by hand. The other machine is a big old Sun that I bought about 20 years. Both machines do an excellent job for speeds up to about 100 mph. I don't usually drive faster than that. If you want to talk to someone with a high speed balance problem that even a 9700 can't help with, talk to my neighbor about 20 miles up the road. His name is Craig Breedlove, and he gets his car up to around 600 mph on a straightway.

I still think you need to swap another set of wheels or rotate front to back.

Peter

The Hunter 9700 is not an absolute requirement in my opinion.

It's just an example of the fact that there are computerized systems out there and manual. The newer computerized systems are much more precise along with many other diagnostic capabilitys that may or may not be benificial. I've seen the old manual systems in action and a Hunter computerized system, I would never go back. Not to say a manual machine can't get the job done..

D,

What happened to the front end shake?

Peter

I have a 190 2.0 automatic (1989). I too experienced vibration at 70-80 mph.

After spending £££ on wheel balancing and 'axle swapping', I finally replaced the tyres. Problem solved. The Pirelli tyres had plenty of tread left on them but were damaged internally so that the tyre was wearing unevenly. Balancing the defective tyres/wheels only lasted for perhaps 800 miles or so before the vibration resurfaced.

If only I had visited this forum before!

i got new tyres. finally. gonna go rotate. new problem. later!1!!!