Flex Service Question
 

I just bought a 98 S420 with books rand records. It has been seviced, A service at 13K, B at 25K, B at 51K and B at 65K.

Total miles 74K and they used 15/50 from he records.

I'm inclined to go to a 3 to 5K oil change interval instead of Flex Serv.

What say the pro's??

I've not had any problems with a 7500 interval and then letting the FSS run out. The oil level/quality sensor will make some adjustments to time or mileage.

If your tech has SDS he can tell IC that only a oil change was done and FSS will reset accordingly. Howeer, you'll be getting 20K or so out of a airfilter.



Joe

Thanks, I'm gonna go with the lesser interval. Waiting so long gives me the creeps!

Here's how I do the FSS:

I use the FSS countdown mileage system, changing the oil and filter every time the FSS counts down 5000kms (3K-miles). With my driving style, I end up changing the oil every 7500kms (4500miles) or so, since I get better than 1:1 from the FSS.

Then, when it counts down to "0" I do: (about every 20,000kms or 12,500 miles)

Change the engine air filter.
Change the Cabin Dust Filter.
Change the oil/filter.
Check the brake pads and rotors.
Check the poly-v-belt and all hoses.
Check flex discs and final drive for leaks
Check coolant strength and level
Generally pour over the car checking for anything looking worn or out-of-place.

Every other spring I change the brake fluid and coolant, ala old style MB requirements. I change the spark plugs every 50K (30K-miles) which is more often than MB calls for (72K). I change the fuel filter every 60K (instead of 96K) and the tranny is serviced every 100K-km's. The final drive oil is changed every 80-90K-km's.

So far, so good. My car is in tip-top shape and runs better than new (better fuel economy).

I think it's sad that we now have computers telling us when to do something we've always done ourselves.

As far as I'm concerned, FSS or whatever it's called is nothing more than a bunch of marketing crap put together for the masses who don't want to spend money on maint.

FSS or not, I'd change the oil & filter every 3,000.

Screw the computer.

It's sad, but now we're forced to design cars that tell the driver when service is needed.

What bothers me is that this technology is expensive, tricky, and complicated, and what's worse -- this technology is rammed down the throats of people like us in this forum who don't need computers telling us when to change the oil or check the tire pressure!!

I actually argued this point with another engineer at work who doesn't believe that the owner/driver should be proactive with maintenance on his car.

Yet we still can't design a car that will keep the driver from overheating the engine, thus causing thousands of dollars in engine damage. This event usually spells death for any car to which it occurs.

Thanks for the input. I'm a little rebellious and resist doing what a computer tells me to do anyway. Perhaps that's whay I've divorced twice.

I'll change the oil when I think it's right and let the computer relax a little.

The FSS actually does a reasonably good job of determining when oil and filter should be changed but only corresponds with the use of SYNTHETIC oil. MB even issued a 150,000 mile extended engine warranty to anyone who was following the FSS and using Dino oil.

So, you can use Dino oil and change it often, or use Mobil One or equivalent and change when the FSS says so. It really does work.

All that said, I'm personally a belt and suspenders type guy. I use Mobil One AND I change oil and filter between the FSS recommendation, so I am in effect, doubling up on oil changes.

Have a great day,

I perform the service when the computer tells me to, sometimes 1-2k miles sooner. I don't have any problem with a computer tracking when service is needed. In fact, I wish it would remind me of tire rotation, coolant change, and brake bleed jobs too. How is this different than you writing down on a pc of paper and reminding yourself to do something?

Since my E320 holds 8 qt of oil, I am not bothered by the extended oil change intervals. I do use Mobil One per recommendation. At $4/qt and $11/filter, it's not necessary to change oil every 3k mi and not worth saving money using dino juice and doing more frequent changes.

Enjoy the technology and worry about other things in life that's more important than oil changes. Let the computer help you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by djantlive
[B]I How is this different than you writing down on a pc of paper and reminding yourself to do something?

For starters, the interval used by a concerned owner is going to be much different than the marketing-oriented BS generted by the computer. Do you think any car mfg. wants your car to last?
These so-called "extended intervals" are nonsense created to sell cars to people who don't care much at all about keeping a car 10 or more years.

Consider this. I live in Arizona. If we don't take a long trip, we may only put 5-6K miles on the car a year. At that rate, it could be two years before the FSS system authorizes MBUSA service. Now anyone who lives in Arizona knows that it's really dusty and it's also really hot. It's insane to go 2 years w/o looking at the air filter or even opening the hood. It's also insane to think that even the extended interval filter will go two years installed in an engine that has to deal with 116 degree heat in stop and go traffic with the A/C running.

I'm personally happy that MBUSA is dropping the free (built into the price of the car) maintenance. I'm also hoping that US cars will get the European Assyst system in place of the FSS system so the owner can reset it himself and (hopefully) have the dealer program it to suit the owners requirements.

Owners can reset the FSS now. It's explained clearly in the (seldom read) owner's manual.

The FSS system makes some sense to me, but it's the intervals that I don't like, so I simply modify how I use the system. I like that it tracks city vs. highway miles and I find that useful. However, the intervals for oil and filter changes are just not frequent enough for me.

Keep in mind that the majority of customers today have no idea of what it takes to keep a car in good shape for more than a few months. And why should they? The lease is only 36 months and then the thing goes back. Who cares? People have become conditioned to just making a continous payment for driving a car for the rest of their lives and minimizing maintenance costs is important when it comes to comparision shopping.

Many of us are "keepers" and like to maximize the amount of benefit we receive from the capital investment of our automobiles. In the case of folks like us, I wish there was a switch for the FSS to "car nut keeper-type" from "don't care leasing customer" so that the FSS would work as I wished it to specifically.

blackmercedes

Surely you mean capital EXPENDITURE ? ;)

Mike Murrell ......... you said it ! every 3k !
ive never seen soo many camshafts and lifters go bad since the fss and now the fss-plus b/s.
anyone seen the sludge on these 112-113 engines after these cars go out of warranty?

Since evidently, no one knows much about the FSS I want to tell you this.

The person worried about 24 months obviously does not know that this is why the word "Flexible" is in FSS. If you are taking short trips, it will flag for service at a lower mileage. Additionally, even if you only drive it one mile, once a month, it will call for service after 16 months. Additionally there is a resistive sensor that tests the oil for contamination. This is not a highly scientific test, but added to the other information monitored by the algorithm, this makes for a pretty good indication of when to change oil.

Also, the engines are sludging up because of those who insist on using dino oil and still going by the FSS. Did no one read what I wrote about MB offering 150,000 mile engine warranties for those who ran dino oil before MB let people know to run synth if you were relying FSS intervals?

Also, If there is a car company that wants their cars to go high mileage, MB is it. They have even amassed huge advertising campaigns in the past surrounding the high mileage MB's in the world. They also promote a high mileage award program. Does anyone else do this?

That said, all car companies are building their cars to sell to first owners. MB themselves get no money when the car sells to the second and subsequent owners. They do sell more cars, however, because of the MB resale value and the fact that many have learned that buying a used MB is getting something that can be repaired, rebuilt and kept on the road. It's not built like a dollar watch as are many American, Japanese and low end European cars.

I personally will never run my car all the way to the FSS indication without an oil and filter change of Mobil One in between, but I am admittedly anally retentive when it comes to oil changes.

If a person will do what MB says and USE SYNTHETIC OIL, then the FSS intervals will work. This is much more than marketing hype. Even if it is marketing hype, no one holds a gun to your head and tells you that you can't change your until the FSS system says you can. What's with such conspiracy theories anyway?

My $0.02,

As usual, Larry has hit the nail on the head. Follow the FSS and you should not have any problems. If, however, you think it's a conspiracy, then go ahead and change it in between FSS intervals.

At 5000 miles, I drained (yep from underneath) my 02 C320. The oil (Mobil 1) looked like it just came out of the jug. At 10k the dealer changed it on FSS. I now have 7000 on that change and the oil still looks good to the naked eye. I have about 3000 left before the FSS kicks in again.

I think at 5000 after that I'll change it myself again since the part of the dealer change I don't like is the methods they use to change the oil (sucking it out the top). It will make me feel good to drain it all out the bottom again. Probably not necessary, but it's my car, my money, etc.... Peace-of-mind! Anal? Whatever... it also gives me a chance to look at the underside of the car for any other potential problems...


Brian








Larry wrote:
<snip>
If a person will do what MB says and USE SYNTHETIC OIL, then the FSS intervals will work. This is much more than marketing hype. Even if it is marketing hype, no one holds a gun to your head and tells you that you can't change your until the FSS system says you can. What's with such conspiracy theories anyway?
<snip>

For those people who drive enough miles for the FSS to authorize an oil change in a year or so, fine. My problem is that when you don't drive that many miles you can go an awful long time before anybody opens the hood.

I've heard that the maximum time could be 13 months. I've heard 16 months and I've seen posts where it's close to two years.

Now that MBUSA is dropping so-called free maintenance and going back to 1,000 and 3,000 mile initial services I have to think/hope that MBUSA will return to a more sensible maintenance agenda.

Before Germany pushed the reduction in oil usage, Mercedes had a maintenance criteria a whole lot like Lexus has today. When BMW-USA began courting the lease customer with their free maintenance package, MBUSA had to respond with a version of maintenance built into the cost of the vehicle (lease clients aren't smart enough to know they were paying for it anyway).

Now I think that with the weak dollar, MBUSA is looking for ways to avoid another price increase and cutting out the maintenance package is one of them.

I've been using Mobil 1 for a long, long time. Living in Arizona, it's obvious that the oil starts to get dirty well before the FSS system would authorize an oil change.

Since I'm getting too old to crawl under the car anymore, I've just bought a Topsider so I can change oil the way the country club set changes oil:D

Bud,

I understand your concern about going so long without opening the hood. I am almost 55, so I go back to the days when we absolutely wore out our hood hinges because the cars needed so much maintenance and repair.

There are many things about the modern cars, particularly MB's that seem hard to get used to. An example is no dipstick.

The good news is that the cars really are that good these days. I'm not in any way trying to encourage you to keep the hood closed. I still open my hood and get underneath for oil changes just to check things, but the cars really don't need it very much.

Just change the oil, keep an eye on things and it'll go.

Enjoy,

Does anyone know how FSS works in terms of what parameters are involved in FSS decision making. Does it just monitor odometer, engine speed, operation duration, engine temperature, etc. ?

Rafi,

It measures and monitors all those things, but ALSO it does a resistivity test on the oil.

Again, it's recommendation is based on the use of synthetic oil.

Have a great day,

The diesel FSS is not the same as the gasoline one. The gasoline FSS is more sophisticated. As far as I remember the diesel FSS does not measure the oil resistivity. It only considers time, mileage, starts , etc. I'd have to check my literature, but the diesel system might even be just a straight miles system. I'm away from home and my manuals right now so I can't look that up.

Len
'99 E300TD 61,000 miles

Len - how do you like your 99 E300TD, would you recommend it ?

My '96 E300D did not have FSS, but it did have a resistivity measurement device. I don't know exactly how it gave its indication and since I change oil so often, I never saw it.

Have a great day,

Larry

There is a wonderful world out here, for you to discover.
If you ever get out from under your car(s). :D

You seem to be forgetting, or are not aware to begin with.

I am almost 55 years old. I've been in almost every state in the union, every country in North America and have been in almost every Western European country. It's not as if I do nothing but work on my cars.

If I DIDN'T keep my oil changed, and otherwise do preventive maintenance then I really would be spending all my time trying to keep them running.

Have a great weekend,

Rafi - I like my E300 very much. It is really a nice car, quick, smooth and with all the modern conveniences and safety features. Keep in mind that I had been driving an '83 240D as my main car for the past 22 years. Diesel technology has come a long way in that time. So far I have been able to handle all the routine A and B services rather easily. I'm still worried about the electronics, but the one problem I did have with them I was able to solve pretty easily and cheaply myself too. So far so good.

Len

just heard that fss is history! looks like mb is going back to basics.
rumor is warranty is not paying for any services, remember 15,30,60 k's? awww the good ol days of making money.
but bmw still pays for services!:eek:

You really think so ? :D

thats what im hearing from the factory guys manny. who knows when thats gonna start. all of 04 cars are not getting wiper blades or inserts on "B" services. wiper blades on the 220 are around $120.......... ouch! lol
we'll see what happends.....hahhaha
take care

With all due respect, doing your own maintenance is far less time consuming than taking your car to a dealer to have work done that anyone with average intelligence and physical attributes could do themselves. I never had the time to sit around waiting for the cashier at a dealership to get my bill ready much less for the mechanics to do the work between coffee breaks.

IMHO, people who think that it's difficult or time consuming are looking for reasons not to do it when it fact it makes good sense. It takes little time, you save a bundle of money you could spend on things to improve the quality of your life, you do a better job of it and you get the satisfaction of accomplishing something.

BTW, when I wasn't working 80 hour work weeks developing software, I (like Larry) also traveled extensively throughout North American and Western Europe. I used the money I saved on car maintenance to buy Leica cameras and binoculars to enhance my travel experiences.

Larry,

You explained it well, and I'll go along with you on everything including you being anal.:D

I think it is a good system and saves engines and resources. If you putz around town and change oil by the odometer, you may not be changing oil often enough and shortening the life of the engine. By the same token if you do more freeway driving, you may be changing oil too often.We keep talking about reducing oil imports so just think of how many millions of gallons of oil are wasted by changing oil 1000 miles too early. We also have to look at the waste stream that is generated. I know the system is designed around synthetics for now, but that could be changed to include Dino.

On another note, I have no problem with a computer helping me not have to remember things. I find computers to be helpful in that respect so I have to disagree with most of you. If you really want to know what I consider an invasion of my intelligence, it is a control that makes me put my foot on the brake before I can shift out of park. I am also irritated by cars that decide when my doors should be locked or unlocked. Have you ever gotten into one of those cars that knocks the soda cup out of your hand with the seat belt shoulder strap when you turn the key? I think I should be able to decide when to put on the seat belt or even if I want to put it on.

Peter

Bud

You have to understand that I was just giving Larry " a ride ". ;)
If I had 1 dollar for every hour I've spent, under cars, and still doing it at my age, I would be rich enough to take my vehicles to the dealer, for every minor task.
Btw. How did you like traveling in Europe?
I was born & grew up there. ;)

Actually, I spent a year on special assignment working for IBM Germany. We lived in Feucht outside of Nuremburg. We traveled extensively during and after the assignment.

I'm considering a Euro Delivery of a new E320 CDI in September but my wife is reluctant to fly anymore. If we went back, we'd spend more time in France (Loire Valley, etc.).

We loved Europe and we'd love to go back but neither my wife nor I are anxious to spend 16 hours or more getting there.

BTW, we had a BMW 316I...bright orange:D We also spent 43 days traveling around by train...the only civilized way to travel.

manny,

Where in Europe did you live? I lived in Germany for two years in the late sixties, early seventies.

I did a LOT of business travel in Europe in 2000 through 2002. I spent a lot of time in Germany, mostly Stuttgart and Frankfurt areas, but also Dusselldorf/Essen, Hamburg and personal time near Pforzheim which was one of the places I lived.

I also traveled alot to the Zurich area, Milan, Copenhagen, Brussells, Nice, Monaco and Eindhoven (Netherlands.) These were my most common areas where I worked but I visited many other areas in Italy, Spain, France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, UK and all over Germany. I've also vacationed in St. Moritz, Switzerland and various places in Germany.

Driving on the autobahn in a good car is about as much fun as I can have with my clothes on. I really, learned my expressway driving on the German autobahn and have been a very frustrated driver on American roads ever since. In Germany it takes lots of training and money to get a drivers license as opposed to the US where you only have to be 16 and have a beating heart.

Have a great day,

Larry

I was born & raised in a city called Speyer.
It is on the Rhine river, about 20 minutes west of Heidelberg, or 10 minutes west of Hockenheim ( Race track ).
Actually my mother was from Hockenheim, that's where the Racer in me comes from.
:D
Seen pretty much most of France, Italy, Austria ( where I had some of my schooling ), Switzerland ( where is still visit friends from time to time ).
I enjoy vacationing there frequently, as most of my family is there.
The best part, as you pointed out ( aside from the fantastic food ), is letting it all hang out on the Autobahn.
Just have to remember, things change very rapidly, when you are travelling at 140 mph.......oh, and braking distances increase as well ! ;)

My favorite part of the Rhein is from the point West of Wiesbaden where the river turns North on up to like Bonn. I lived in Hanau in 70/71 and our favorite thing to do on a Sunday was to just cruise up the river and then cross on a ferry and come back on the other side.

My wife and I like to find a Hotel on the river in that area and get a room on the top floor facing the river and just watch the boats go by. It makes for a very relaxing time.

Our thirtieth anniversary is in May and we were thinking of using some frequent flyer miles to go to Germany, but with the exchange rate as it is I'm sure it would be more expensive than I was accustomed to in '00 and '01.

I have been to the racetrack at Hockenheim twice. It's a great facility and I'm sure it's better now. I saw Phil Hill there in the sunset years of his career.

There's a really great stretch of Autobahn that runs from that area West to Kaiserslautern. It is really wide open and mostly straight.

I came close about a year and a half ago to moving to Munich, but I was a little leary after 9/11 to move there to live. In general the people are great, but I don't know how all the political environment might have effected an Americans welcome.

Have a great weekend,

Flex Service
 

I have a 1998 C280 6 cylinder. I just bought it used from a friend. I did a search for the Flex Services and this site popped up. What I was wondering is, what should the A & B service cost? I was going to take it to a dealer but wasn't sure what is too expensive. Also, would it be better to take it to a shop that specializes in imports? I was reading through and you all seem to know a great deal about this so I thought I would ask. Any help at all is useful. Thank you.