(posted this in the 'detailing' section - but got no responses. I mean, after a month of being on this site almost daily, it was my first time there too - so I understand!)

Hi guys. Just need to repair a few cracks and repaint the rear, lower bumper on my two-tone '95 E320 (white upper and body / gray lower). The lower color has all the issues.

I shoot my own cars (restoration work for myself) - but have never tried to match a color on a mercedes benz. From all my research on this board, I've determined that the lower panel on my car SHOULD be basecoat/clearcoat. But it really doesn't look glossy at all - looks like a single stage. If I were to guess, I would say a single stage urethene.

Normally I would shoot PPG concept urethene (for my single stage colors). But I've read that the OEM should be Glasurit or Sikkens.

Can you guys please advise me on (1) is this lower gray color a single stage? (2) should I trust my local paint shop, if I provide them with the car's color code to have something mixed exactly - from the color code? (3) should I try and find glasurit? Or just shoot my standard PPG?

Thanks very much!

out of my realm of knowledge.
M.B. in New Jersey maintains two (2) "technical" experts [to
replace the one before, named Jonathan Papiyatro, if he did
not know the answer he'd find someone who did !] You can
call Toll Free ! 1-800-222-0100 and someone will plug you
into the "techs" voice mail .

OR , Gather up your courage, (you are an Amerikaner) and
CALL...
Deutchland direct , they all speak better english than we
do ! And I get the impression (at least in Sindelfingen ) a
call from the U.S. gives them something to guffaw about
over their steins.

To the best of my knowledge bodyshops cannot obtain Glasurit and Sikkens for repair work. Our 1992 300CE was hit and needed a new rear bumper. The bodyshop used a Dupont basecoat/clearcoat product to duplicate the factory finish. I know that the painter had to 'experiment' a bit to duplicate the clearcoat low gloss finish.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle

It's likely that it's a single stage. A good dealer can tell you for sure. Get multiple opinions if necessary - a lot of people will tell you that everything is cleared. I know of a couple other "lower"colors that were single stage in that year - 700 Alto Gray, which goes under 040 black and 199 black pearl, and 176 Shell Gray metallic which goes under 702 smoke silver. I would suspect that your's is also single stage. These are exceptions to the rule that metallics are always clearcoated. The lowers have a matte finish and look very strange and out of place with a glossy clear. If you really want to clear you need to use a satin finish.

I think you pretty much have to trust the paint store to match the color. Just find a good shop, or it sounds like you might already have one. You might take in a license plate bracket or something to help them along. If they can't find the lower color code that goes with your upper, a dealer parts counter can ususally help you. The lower code is not on the data plate and is often missing on the VMI. The parts guys are used to selling touch up paint for bumpers.

I absolutely would shoot the premium PPG - great paint - it would be a waste of time to search for anything else.

Dean, our 1992 300CE is 199 black pearl and the bumper paint was a basecoat/clearcoat system. The bodyshop had some trouble matching the clearcoat finish of the other original lower body moldings.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle

- compress - thanks for your note and reference

- ferdman - you too. I think many of the W124s have a bit different paint scheme. In other words, yours sounds like it has have a BC/CC system on the body all the way down to the lower bumper. I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

- dean - yeah, this is the information I was looking for. You're exactly right. The lower gray on my polar white sedan (0149) is definitely BC/CC. I haven't yet determined what the color code on my lower gray area is (from MB), but according to paintscratch.com, the color should be "Marble Grey (matt) Clearcoat (7201)". But to me, no way does this look like a clearcoat. I actually removed a small chip from my cracked bumper - and it sure looks like a thin piece of single stage eurethene to me. BTW - paintscratch.com wants $115 for a quart of basecoat and $40 for a quart of clearcoat. The thing that's strange about their system to me is there is no mention of reducers or other agents necessary to mix with what they provide you.

You did hit the nail on the head. It's a matte finish. But I don't know why they would spray a 'matte' clearcoat. The thing is, if I do go to a PPG system, getting all the right colors needed to shoot the lower front/rear bumpers might get pretty expensive if I go to a BC/matte CC. Like your thoughts on this dean. Thanks!

dean - paintscratch.com paint (owned by bio pac, inc.) is made by: http://www.sanleandrocolor.com/

according to the logos on their under construction site - on the home page - they are a 3M, PPG, Dupont and Nason dealer. I'll try to call them today - to see what the skinny is on the paintscratch.com materials.

OK - just found this on the paintscratch.com Web site: (in the faq section):

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Paint is not Spraying Correctly.
You may have used the wrong thinner/reducer or forgot to thin the paint. When using a spray gun, thin the paint 1:1 with automotive lacquer thinner. (not the lacquer thinner from Home Depot, etc.) There are other types of thinners/reducers available to use with our paint (DuPont ChromaBase) and if you want to use these products, I would consult with your local auto body supply store.

---

I'm not familiar with ChromaBase at all. Can anyone comment about this? The recommended reducing agent is laquer thinner. Very easy - and relatively cheap to shoot. But an odd choice...

71Rcode, I bought our 1991 300CE (white body/gray lower molding and bumpers) privately and the original owner gave me MB spray paint cans for touchup work he had done on the bumpers. The labels on both cans are defaced ... probably due to the removal of packaging tape that wrapped the 2 cans together. The lid on the gray paint can is the paint color ... the legible label information is 7738 and 738, the following number is stenciled on the upper lip of the can 1550696108. The other can states "2 layer paint spray set, Clear lacquer satin glossy" ... that 's the clearcoat. The number 1440596113 is stenciled on the upper lip of the can. Both cans contain 5.1 fluid ounces. I'd inquire about the availability of spray paint at a local MB dealer. It would probably be less than $155 for several cans of the MB spray paint, and the color will match.

I thought that the 1995 E320 bumpers were the same color as the body. My parents own a red 1995 E320 and it has a monotone paint scheme. Whereas our white 1991 300CE has gray bumpers with a black insert/bumper guard.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle

You need a "half-matt" paint product.

Pay the money for the Glasurit or the Sikkens.

If one shop cannot help you, move on to one that can.

Spend the money that will do these cars justice.

-Mike

__________________
1989 300CE - 269,000 km
1994 SL600 - 59,000 km

Fred, what a body shop did is not necessarily what Mercedes did originally - a lot of body shops will take short cuts. Clearcoat is essentially a labor saving shortcut. Some paint manufacturers will "suggest" a basecoat / clearcoat solution even when the original was single stage. And a lot of paint store employees will tell you that a car was BC/CC when it wasn't because that's all they have to sell, or they are more comfortable selling it. The reality is that a single stage metallic is tough to apply in a non-factory environment - it's hard "work" the finish, that is to wet sand and buff, without disturbing the the metal flakes.

The touch up kits from Mercedes will sometimes include a clearcoat can even when the original was not clearcoated. This is apparently based on the assumption that an amatuer with a spray can will not get as "wet" a finish as the factory, unless they have a clearcoat. These are lacquer products so in no way are they the same thing that the factory applied. Those clearcoat spray cans from Mercedes seem to have a strange way of turning pink. I throw them away and try to put the color coat wet enough so that the clear isn't necessary.

Shyne, like many others the auto paint industry has consolidated in recent years. Everyone has a full line of paints, from low end to premium - e.g. Glasurit is now a division of BASF. The key is to buy a premium paint - all manufacturers offer excellent high end lines, including PPG. The problem with looking for Glasurit is that they don't seem terribly interested in the retail market these days.

Dean, thanks for the information on MB spray paint. As I mentioned the original owner gave me the spray touch-up paint when I purchased the 1991 300CE, and I've never used it.

__________________
Fred Hoelzle