Hopefully, this is the right forum for this post. Apologies in advance if it is not.

I recently bought a 1986 300e with the 5-speed. It was, IMO, a reasonably priced car. Coming out of the desert SW, there is not a single speck of rust on the car, and it has never been crashed. Just the usual issues related to the sun.

It has 206,000 on the clock, and everything works. With the exception of the Antera rims and the radio, everything is unmolested and OEM. On a overal condition scale, I would rate it a 7 out of 10. As a former pro mechanic, I like cars that have not been given "The Treatment" by less than expert wrench operators and the shade tree set.

I have the money and time to restore the paint and interior to mint condition. If I put mechanical parts in it, I'm inclined to go the OEM mercedes route....if the car will eventually be a desireable unit.

I did a major tune up, CIS work, valve job, and wheel bearings/brakes to date. Amazing what a 18-year old car will still do if treated right. I like working on cars as a pastime, and this thing is as much fun to work on as it is to drive.

If this car is not really worth much (say, less than $4,000), I am interested in stuffing either a 500e or a 560 SEL engine in it. I think really fast and good handling cars that don't fit the camaro/musting/eclipse/etc. stereotype are pretty amusing. Another route might be a t3/t4 turbo on the six.

The major reason I would go this route is because I'm very partial to manual transmissions, and to my knowledge, there are no stick V-8's in sedan form in the last 15 years from M-B. Otherwise, I would just buy a 500e. (I might do that anyways)

It's not like the car is slow or anything like that. In fact, I find that pesky right foot of mine is already creating a cause for concern, even in New Mexico where traffic enforcement in the boonies is pretty lax. I'll bet this thing will do close to 150.

If this car has intrinsic collectors value, I will buy another one, (auto) to hotrod and animalize. I would then assign this one to low-duty use, and restore it.

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1986 300e 5-speed 223k
1995 Volvo 850 T5 wagon 65k
1985 F-350 475k

It's rare in the US, not in the world though...

so I'm not sure if it could be classified as such. These 5-speed 300Es are always talked about in this forum and other MB enthusiast sites. However, they dont seem to sell for too much on ebay or autotrader.

I am looking for one myself...

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2008 BMW 335i Coupe

not collectible.
unusual maybe. collectible? not.

there is a thread here somewhere about turboing 124s.

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'O=00=O'
bmw 2002.
long live the legend

Before you transplant a 500E engine check if the 5-speed can take the torque. Probably can't otherwise MB would have made at least a few 5-spd 500Es.

Not very collectable except to a very few, and that won't change until its very old. The fun factor however, is extremely high. To the rest of the world, the 5 spd was mostly seen in taxi service.

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Hanno
'79 6.9 Sold (after 27 years)
'83 280SL, 5 spd.
'94 E320 Sdn. 5 spd conversion
'02 E320 Sdn.(on loan to mom!)
'87 300E (5 spd. conversion) Sold
'05 E500 Wagon

My 300E is very similar to the one you described except that it is an '88. The manual transmission was put in about 700 '86's and about 300 '88's. My car is in absolutely EXCELLENT mechanical condition, but probably only a 7 or 8 cosmetically. It is completely rust free, but I have hit a deer and it had light repair on the drivers door before I got it.

I feel that my car is a real gem. As you, I am a manual transmission fanatic. That is why I looked for two years until I found one of these with a manual.

Although I don't see these cars as collectibles or classics, I REALLY hate to see one altered. As you have learned, it is a great car and the manual makes it faster and MUCH more fun to drive. Yes, the top speed is listed as 144 and I feel quite sure that my car will go that fast as I have had it near there with plenty more left.

My friend Paul (Suginami) has a two cam 124. That engine has about 15% more power than our single cam engines, but of course, has an automatic. After riding in mine he commented that the manual makes it come alive.

Today, unless you can find an enthusiast buyer, the car is not worth much more than an equivalent a/t model, but who knows? Maybe some day there will be a premium. If that day ever comes, a rust free unmodified example will definitely be the desirable car that will bring the extra cash.

As you've discovered, it's a fun car to drive if you're a stick shift enthusiast. Why not get something else to play with and leave the 124 untouched as a fun daily driver?

It's your car and your business, but if the day ever comes when they start bringing a premium, then the fewer original cars that are available will make mine more valuable.

BTW, there is no way this transmission would hold up behind a stout V8 unless you tiptoed around with it, and what fun would that be?

Enjoy,

My previous car was a 1988 BMW 735i 5-speed (E32 body style). Less than 600 E32 735i's were imported from 1988-1990, with 1990 being the last year. It was a wonderful car, but after moving 10 miles further from work, in DC traffic, I couldn't take a 5-speed anymore. Funny, because i searched for 6 months to specifically buy a 735i with a 5-speed.

I believe that I was able to get more interest in the car because it was a stick. I kept the car immaculate, which is always a good way to get more at the time of sale. However, the stick did not give the car "collectible" value. The stick allowed me to command a premium (about $1500) over what an automatic would have gone for. Even so, the number of people that will buy a car with 188,000 miles on it is very limited, even a BMW.

Hope this helps.

Troy
1995 E420

Think of it this way: There was not enough demand to keep the manual option alive in the USA. Bet they would rot on the dealer's lots, if they were not special ordered. If there was little demand then, there will probably be little demand in the future. Sure, there are a handful of folks looking for them, but are they expecting to pay more? I bet more folks reading the classified ad will pass because of the 5-speed, than will be attracted by it. I doubt the 124 in general is rare enough to become particularly collectible.

Did you notice that the motor press was generally handed 5-speeds for testing in 1985/1986? Must have accounted for a decent percentage of the total production.

My own car was saved from a $1000 trade in offer. The dealer said it was worth less on the auction market because of the 5-speed. Fortunately, it was offered to me instead.

Anyways, I doubt your 5-speed is up for the torque of a V8. If you get into building a V8 124, perhaps you could salvage a manual transmission from an SL.

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1986 300E 5-Speed 240k mi.

Not much supply, not much demand.

A lot of people say they want more Mercedes with standard transmissions, but not many are putting their money where their mouth is.

I noticed when car magazines do a comparison between a BMW sporty model and a Mercedes sporty model they always say "Too bad Mercedes doesent offer it with a standard transmission.

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5 speed '91 190E 2.6 320,000 mi. (new car, fast, smooth as silk six, couldn't find any more Peugeots)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.5l Turbo Diesel 266,000 mi. (old car, fast for a diesel, had 2 others)
5 speed '01 Jetta V6 (new wifes car, pretty quick)
5 speed '85 Peugeot 505 2.2l Turbo Gas 197,000 mi. (wifes car, faster, sadly gone just short of 200k )
5 speed '83 Yamaha 750 Maxim 14,000 mi. (fastest)
0 speed 4' x 8' 1800 lb Harbor Freight utility trailer (only as fast as what's pulling it)

The SL's have the same manual transmission. The only SL's of this time period that came to the US with a manual were M103 sixes.

There are no manual transmissions designed to go behind V8's of that era, either for the US market or the worldwide market. I expect that the very few V8's with manuals that were built by Renntech or AMG were with non MB transmissions and a lot of custom adapter fabrication.

IMHO, with every passing year there are fewer and fewer people that can even drive a car with a manual transmission. Of that number there are fewer that are competent doing it. Of that number there is a smaller number that truly ENJOY driving a manual.

I am one of the few people who totally LOVE and ENJOY driving a manual transmission under ANY conditions, even stop and go or freeway traffic jams. I don't like freeway traffic jams, but I don't dislike them any more because I'm driving a stick.

Both of my kids fall in that very small group with me. They both are EXTREMELY competent driving a stick and really enjoy it. My daughter absolutely INSISTS on having a car with a stick.

Since there are few of us around, the market is limited for now. I still say, though, that the possibility exists that these cars will be saught after in the distant future. My baseball cards were nothing when I was a kid. After all they gave them away in bubble gum, they were only little pieces of cardboard worth nothing unless you needed something to kindle a fire. If I only had back my Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris cards that I threw in the trash I could own all the manual transmission cars I want.

If I had known the future, I would not have passed up the '70 Mustang Boss 429 with 10,000 miles for $2,400. I needed the money for tuition.

None of us know what the future holds.

Have a great day,

While the 5-speed may be more appealing to an "enthusiast" it's still stuck in a 300E, engine and body. So, while there's a chance for a premium over an auto 300E, it's not going to double the value, etc. Time has shown that, except for the limited production uber sedans, it is the SL's that seem to rebound in value, approximately at their 30th anniversary. So, you '70's SL owners with good condition cars . . . it might be your time.

i would tend to agree with MTI, with a slight variation. If I am in the market for a manual-transmission car, I would go for a BMW (3series or 5series). It has a sportier and more driver-oriented demeanor that is in line with the more driver-involved nature of shifting it manually. I would then complement this with a proper MB sedan with an automatic transmission (e.g. an E420/400E).

that said, you would have to pry my hands off my 5speed-manual 190e 2.6 ...

what I would really want though, is a manual C36 ... this would keep my mind off the BMW alternative ...

the upshot of these manual MB cars not being in high demand is that we manual-shifting enthusiasts can easily afford them, IF we can find one ...

Only time can verify any of our theories. Those baseball cards were nothing but a cheap piece of cardboard that came free with a piece of bubble gum.

Every individual post in this thread is nothing more than each of our individual likes, dislikes and theories.

None of us have a crystal ball.

Have a great day,

And my Mom tossed my "Beatles" lunch box when we moved in 68!

And from time to time, I think about the vast collection of Hot Wheels I had as a kid in the early 70's.

I got my driver's license during the gas crunch, and neighbors were eager to part with their Hemis, Bosses and SS'ers for 3 or 4 grand...

...maybe this should be a nostalgia thread!

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2009 ML350 (106K) - Family vehicle
2001 CLK430 Cabriolet (80K) - Wife's car
2005 BMW 645CI (138K) - My daily driver
2016 Mustang (32K) - Daughter's car

The only SLs that came to the U.S. were the early 129s - 90 to 93 300SLs. They were a 3 liter 104 motor and had a different transmission than the 300Es. They had a dogleg shift pattern - first gear was towards the rear of the car, second towards the front of the car - like a 928 stick. I believe it was actually the same transmission as a 928 although I can't remember who made it. I'm sure the transmission was stout but to me neither was a fun car to drive.