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Old 09-15-2000, 08:24 PM
JCE's Avatar
JCE JCE is offline
Down to the Wear Bars
Join Date: May 1999
Location: So Kalifornia
Posts: 2,189
To help determine who is making the decisions (and pricing), I copied the following from The US Security and Exchange web site, from the Daimler Chrysler Form 424B1 filing:

"Chrysler has entered into a Business Combination Agreement, dated as of May
7, 1998 with Daimler-Benz Aktiengesellschaft, organized and existing under the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany, and DaimlerChrysler AG, a stock corporation organized and existing under the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany.

The Combination Agreement provides for the business combination of Chrysler
and Daimler-Benz in a series of Transactions which will result in Chrysler becoming a wholly owned subsidiary of DaimlerChrysler and Daimler-Benz merging with and into DaimlerChrysler, with DaimlerChrysler
remaining as the surviving entity.

Upon completion of the Merger, purchasers of the shares of Chrysler Common Stock will become holders of ordinary shares of
DaimlerChrysler, a stock corporation (AKTIENGESELLSCHAFT) organized under the
laws of the Federal Republic of Germany.

Most of the members of the Supervisory Board of DaimlerChrysler and a number of the members of the Management Board of DaimlerChrysler and certain of the officers of DaimlerChrysler and certain experts named
herein will reside outside the United States.

Fluctuations in the exchange rate between the dollar and the mark will affect the dollar equivalent of the mark price of DaimlerChrysler Ordinary Shares traded on the German stock exchanges and, as a result, are likely to affect the market price of the DaimlerChrysler Ordinary Shares on the NYSE.

DaimlerChrysler will be the successor corporation to Daimler-Benz following consummation of the Daimler-Benz Exchange Offer and the Daimler-Benz Merger."

Kind of murkey, but it seems to me that Chrysler got Acquired by a new corporation that Daimler Benz formed and then merged with, that most of the officers/directors live overseas, and that the exchange rate will affect at least the stock price!

87 300E, 65k miles
Smoke Silver
Old 09-15-2000, 08:28 PM
Alex Kouliy
Posts: n/a
Mike and Larry,
The Classic is a stripped-down version, steel wheels w/hubcaps, etc. The cost and the hassle of importation of the Elegance model, similar to the US entry-level C-class, would more than offset the savings. European delivery could be a better bet, especially if you combine it with holidays in the old country. Saves you $1000-1500 max on a C-class, eliminates car rental expenses in Europe and you get to test-drive your vehicle the way it's meant to be driven. The major disadvantage is that Mercedes-Benz requires payment in full before actually building your vehicle. The banks would not lend me money unless I provided them with the VIN. I have no way of knowing the VIN because the car would not have been built at the time of payment. Of course, that's a non-issue for those who have the cash in hand. Unfortunately, I am too big to fit comfortably in a C-class, while my wallet is too thin to pay cash for an E-class.


[This message has been edited by Alex Kouliy (edited 09-15-2000).]
Old 09-15-2000, 08:31 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: New Bedford, MA USA
Posts: 1,583
Golleeee..after reading that, no wonder car prices are what they are. Just the cost of the lawyers needed to hammer out that bucket of corporate doublespeak must be worth a couple container ships full of the latest MBZ has to offer..

Jeff Lawrence
1989 300e
2000 Dodge Grand Caravan SE
Old 09-15-2000, 08:51 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 50
.... the Chrysler brass is mostly gone. It's Juergen Shremp and the old DBAG boys who bought Chrysler, and NOT the other way around. The Germans call all the [big] shots.

'99 E430
Old 09-15-2000, 09:23 PM
Posts: n/a
the cars are really getting expensive and a lot of them have lost the classic MB style

Dan Younes
1985 euro 500sel 223k
1986 420sel 86k soon 2 be
1981 300sd 285k sold
1979 240d 298k sold
1983 300sd 272k sold
1989 chrysler 2.2l Turbo
Leabaron 140k
1989 Dodge Carvan Se 295k
1994 S500
(hopefully someday)
Old 09-15-2000, 09:38 PM
Posts: n/a
It's not Chrysler taking over Daimler - it's Daimler taking over Chrysler. I work for the former Chrysler and I know it.
As far as the price goes, MBUSA is in USA - just as it's name suggests. And all US companies are very much for bigger profits - otherwise their stocks will be bid down by the Wall Street.

'89 300E
'01 Dodge Caravan Sport
Old 09-15-2000, 10:05 PM
elau's Avatar
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: MD.
Posts: 1,725
Gee...I thought it was a very good price when I saw the new C-Class at $29,950. Isn't it the same price as they released the current C-Class a few years back? That means there really not much price increase over the new model. On the other hand, you have to fork out pretty much the same amount for a Honda Accord Sport Coup or a Toyota Camry. By the way, Honda does come with stick. But....its a Honda. So, I say for somewhere in the neighborhood of $30K you are driving a MB. Few years later when you want to sell it, see who get most of the re-sell value. Not to mention who has a better built and soulful car (regardless of all the complaints on MB recent quality control, like the Japanese doesn't has the same issue?). I still think it has a rather attractive and competitive price. Just my 2 cents.

95 R129
98 ML320
Old 09-15-2000, 10:31 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166

MBUSA's money grubbing is nothing new. I have been following MB automobiles for over 40 years now, and believe me, once they managed to get the marque established in the USA, the money grubbing began.

About 25 or 30 years ago, an article in a magazine pointed out that MBUSA added $1,000 of profit to every MB imported into the US. (Heavens only knows what this price premium is now.)This was, at the time, a significant percentage of the sales price. Then, they had every conceivable add-on installed in every car that was imported and charged an outrageous price for each one. The result was that, while many middle class Germans (even taxi drivers) were able to drive MB automobiles, it was mostly the wealthy in America who could afford to do so. This also impacted the manual transmission question. What wealthy American, driving around in his expensive luxury automoble, wanted to be having to shift gears? There was very little demand for manual transmissions and they were all but dropped from the import line. As far as I know, the 240D was one of the few MB sedans (perhaps the only one?) that was imported by MBUSA with a manual transmission.

So it is obvious that MBUSA has no interest in making their cars available to middle class Americans. They want the most profit from every vehicle that they can milk out of it. By keeping the prices up, they give the marque a "luxury car" reputation, which attracts the big bucks of the wealthy and enables them to do just that.

Once you could buy a MB for factory delivery and save enough on the cost of the car to pay for the trip and a vacation in Europe. Apparently, there were a lot of people taking advantage of that arrangement. This must have aggravated MBUSA. When last I made inquiry about European Delivery at my dealer (about a year ago), I was told that I would pay the full American price for the car, which apparently gives MBUSA their cut.

Money grubbing is a long established practice at MBUSA. The high price of Mercedes-Benz automobiles (and parts)in the USA has been established by their business policies.

1979 240D
160,000 miles
Old 09-15-2000, 10:53 PM
Posts: n/a

You know, if you want to save some money, you might want to put off this purchase for about a year until the end of the model year for the car you are interested in. According to the chatter on Edmunds, MB has recently started to provide their dealers with discount incentives on selected MY 00 products, to clear out the lots for the '01s. BTW, at about this time last year is when MB offered discounts on many of the '99s (between august & october, if I remember). My crystal ball says that if you wait, you could get between 2K and 4K off MSRP by waiting a year……

As I'm sure you know, when a manufacturer sets MSRP it has more to do with pricing a car in a given perceived class of vehicle than any arbitrary dollar or cost valuation. Look at the feature/cost is offered by BMW, Lexus, Volvo, Acura in the $30K range. BTW, isn't the C a new revision this year? Is the stick a 5 speed or 6? I'd be willing to bet that next year, with the '02 models, MB will do with the '01 C class what they did with just about everything else for MY '00, and that was to make a feature increased cost "adjustment." Plus, of course, they'll have the opportunity to work some of the initial kinks out of the new model….

All this said, payin' around $30K for a spanking' new Benz is a bargain as new MBs go!


Old 09-16-2000, 12:25 AM
Posts: n/a

The update on my 300E; I did not get my headbolt socket and guide pin puller in time to get the head off before coming to Europe for three weeks. So, I hope to tear it apart the weekend of about the 24th when I return. I say try, because my daughters 300D quit this week, so I'll have to get her back on the road. Her engine quit at a traffic light, very unusual for a diesel, probably something simple though.

Meanwhile I am stuck driving my POS Corvette when I get home, and it could quit at any second. It's all up in good shape now, except for the 5,000 pound exhaust system rattling, but past experience tells me that something will break on the POS at any turn in the road.

I may end up buying some kind of car on the Friday when I return. Even if I didn't have the bone to pick with MBUSA, waiting three months for a car doesn't help me much right now.

I will always have the manual transmission 300E, and I hope to have it back on the road in a few weeks. Since I have it as my sedan, it does offer the option to replace the POS Corvette with another sports car, one that may have a chance of running for a few miles at a stretch.

Alex Koully,

I enjoyed your post, especially about yourself being to large and your wallet too thin. I understand totally.


MB brought manual transmissions to the USA in the; 240D, the 190 models until about '91, the 300E(I own one), the new SLK, and a few of the 300SL's in the early 90's.

Yes the MB market typically wants automatics, I prefer solid cars with manual transmissions. I am driving an Audi with a manual while in Europe, and love it.

Am I a nut? Of course, but I would like it very much if MBUSA would give me the choice. I LIKE DRIVING MANUAL TRANSMISSION CARS! At least they are finally giving me that choice, if I want to bend over for their keeping 10% of DMark savings.

Thanks for the responses everyone,

Larry Bible
'84 Euro 240D, 523K miles
'88 300E 5 Speed
'81 300D Daughter's Car
Over 800,000 miles in
Mercedes automobiles
Old 09-16-2000, 02:47 AM
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 166

Thanks for the clarification on the cars they have imported with standard transmissions. I have not followed the different sedans available after getting my car in 1979, although I anticipated that some of the sports cars came with standard transmissions.

And, frankly, I don't consider you a nut for wanting a standard. I kind of like shifting for myself, too.

Hope you are enjoying your visit overseas.

1979 240D
160,000 miles
Old 09-16-2000, 08:16 AM
Posts: n/a
gparker hit the nail on the head,the germans are running the show BIG TIME!
i feel sorry for the workers,both blue and white collar and all of us in the motor city when things slow down,i think it will be ugly! also i agree that the benz's have lost their classic looks!
my 2 cents
Old 09-16-2000, 08:20 AM
Posts: n/a
The new c-class offers a 6-spd in the c240!
Old 09-16-2000, 12:14 PM
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Rancho PV, CA, USA
Posts: 328
There is one overlooked item regarding transmission configuration. Federal regulations. Much testing must be done on a cars eng/trans configuration in the USA before it can be sold under the federal guidlines. If the projected number of cars sold do not offset the hassel, they will not offer it. Think of that at election time! Ed
Old 09-16-2000, 03:11 PM
Posts: n/a
Mbenz in general seems to have lost the plot the quality which was highly praised in previous years seems to have deteriorated recent tests criticise M class ,A class,even the new S class,for interior build quality,it has been commented that VW could show MB how to build a quality interior.As for prices so many people are now importing from europe one dealer in my area has closed.I would nothave said this a few years ago but BMW seem to be superior now a days.
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