If you think about the physics of how the master cylinder creates pressure within the brake lines, there is no way that it can be air tight.

Also, rubber brake lines are not completely impervious to moisture seeping through, and given brake fluid's love of moisture, a great deal of moisture can be transfered through the rubber lines.

We change our oil on a regular basis, lovingly caring for our engines. We fret over tranny fluid changes, hoping to keep that beats shifting into old age. Why make the mountain to die on brake fluid? Even having the dealer do it, it's a cheap job.

I'm not sure about you guys, but brakes are kinda important to me. I keep my brakes in top shape, and the tires under them as well. Those are two areas I don't let slide.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I don't know how important it is to flush the brake system as recommended by Mercedes, but I can tell you that I have followed this routine (along other "stupid" routine Mercedes has recommended) and I still have the same original/unopened brake calipers, master cylinder and brake lines that were installed on the car back in 1989....15 years ago and 380K later.
JackD

Yeah I know where you are coming from ;-)

.........and I agree with you. :-)

One thing though this thread certainly attracted attention :-)

It has been a good discussion.

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NormanB
230 TE (W124) 1989 with 153,000 miles on the clock - hoping for at least another 100K

I too have applied the Mercedes regiment to our other cars. I use Mercedes coolant in our other cars, change the brake fluid every two years, and so on.

Guess what? It works. On our other makes, I constantly have mechanics that are amazed at the usefull life we extract from them. I attribute it solely to using the Mercedes maintenenace regiment.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I think it's more a matter of most non-euro OEM's don't care or don't figure anyone is gong to bother dong maintinance like that so they just save the ink in the book. What does a person who buys a 94 for instance pontiac do as soon as it's out of warranty?
Take it to the cheapest place and do as little as possible and drive it till something really $$ breaks, then sell it. Or they trade it in on something still under waranty. This is the way cheap cars and cheap people generaly work. I deal with them every day of the week. I constantly replace master cylinders, calipers, radiators, transmissions, engines, anything and everyithing of late 90's cars with barely 100K on them. It's pathetic.

As others said, if you follow the common sense MB maintinance practices on other vehicles, you'll get simlilier results. I was doing this pretty much before I had ever driven an MB.

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One more Radar Lover gone...
1982 VW Caddy diesel 406K 1.9L AAZ
1994 E320 195K

Glad to know you think of yourself as a looser, LOL.:p

What trip, I am out for a couple days and have three pages to read. I will read tonight and respond. Thanks for the positive and not so positive comments / .

I just shoot straight. If I Pay $4.1K for a Rolex and think it is just a good $1k watch I say it.. I don't have none of my material things up my butt.

Don't get me wrong I love my car... no regrets, no dissapointments, no.......... going home, to be continued.

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1995 E320 smoke silver / parchment

Here is an article on brake flushing and should answer all of your questions.

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/bfed1.htm

http://www.brakeandfrontend.com/bfed1.htm

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1989 420 SEL

Thanks for the info Larry. Again, i am just making a point not whinning, as no one forced me into mercedes, lol.... And remember this is the second Mercedes I have had. As someone mentioned maybe its the type of master cylinder with ...ugg I forgot, that rubber thing going down into the fluid (on the cap) or who knows... I had gone through the maintainance requirements b4 so its not like I am going to forego anything on the schedule.

As for the Pontiac... Its been in the family for about 180k miles, 15 yrs or so, uncle # one bought used 15 yrs or so, then uncle #2 had it, then cousin # 1 had it, then me for the last 10-12 months. I asked uncle #1 and he said he never changed the fluid. I have to confirm with #2. Its a matter of interest at this point.

As for the other poster mentioning how the brake fluid looks after x miles.... have you looked at your oil, just after starting, when you change it, it is pretty, but not as pretty as when it was pouring out of that bottle, lol.

I am changing tranny / rear end / brake fluids in the next 60 days anyway.. whatever the answer would've been, as to keep up with the maintainance the car had in its previous life.

thanks

The difference is that the European automaker philosophy is to make a car that if maintained properly, will last 20 years. The American automaker philosophy is to make a car that will last for the duration of the warrantee, then it can be thrown out.

Your mentality is exactly why American automakers don't recommend it. The average American auto buyer looks at the service recommendations and says, "Geez, that MB needs a lot more service than that Chevy... I guess I'll buy the Chevy." So they're encouraging you to maintain your Chevy poorly, and you're rewarding them by buying a Chevy every 5 years.

Yet another symptom of our pathetic throw-away society.

(In my humble opinion)

Jeff Pierce

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Jeff Pierce

Current Vehicles:
'92 Mercedes 190E/2.3 (247K miles/my daily driver)
'93 Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon (263K miles/a family truckster with spunk)
'99 Kawasaki Concours
Gravely 8120
Previous Vehicles:
'85 Jeep CJ-7 w/ Fisher plow (226K miles)'93 Volvo 940 Turbo Wagon
'53 Willys-Overland Pickup
'85 Honda 750F Interceptor
'93 Nissan Quest
'89 Toyota Camry Wagon
'89 Dodge Raider
'81 Honda CB 750F Super Sport
'88 Toyota Celica
'95 Toyota Tacoma
'74 Honda CB 550F

The links above show - very graphically! - why we need to flush the brake fluid every 2 years (or better yet, every year). The fluid should be golden in color - not brown. I have a Speedi-Bleed kit which makes the flush procedure a snap. Even paying the dealer is only $50 - much cheaper than replacing or rebuilding calipers, master cylinders, or ABS pumps. (You *did* look at the link Cigar Havana posted, didn't you?)

On a side note, MB specs a DOT4 fluid. I did a ton of research on brake fluids and the short version is to use Valvoline SynPower fluid, it has very high boil points (above DOT 4 specs), is easily available at every McParts store nationwide, and only cost $5/quart. Yes, ATE SuperBlue (and Typ200 Gold) is better... but it's harder to locate and costs $10-$12/quart. I prefer the ATE but the Valvoline completely outperforms any other cheap fluid on the market. Just make sure you change it at least every 2 years!

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Dave
Boise, ID
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

Ooooh... I feel a brake fluid thread brewing...

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL

Maybe we could discuss the merits of synthetic brake fluid compared to good ol' dino?

(struggles to keep straight face)

:p

Sixto, you may be on to something - brewing our own brake fluid..

Cheers,
Wes


(Let's see, it will need to strip paint. Also be able to absorb moisture.... anything else?)

Do NOT mix SynPower with any other fluid. I have had some weird results. You must flush all the old stuff out when you put in Syn Power and you better keep some in the trunk when you want to top it off. It seemed to me like it seperates and doesn't mesh uniformly with the other fluid if you add other fluid to it.

I prefer ATE Blue for my gas powered cars and ATE SL for my diesels. I change it about once a year in the spring or so like MB recommends.

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Current Stable:
1994 S500 v140, 210k miles, white with grey.

Former Mercedes in the Stable:
1983 300CD Turbo diesel 515k mi sold (rumor has it, that it has 750k miles on it now)
1984 300CD Turbo Diesel 150 k mi sold
1982 300D Turbo Diesel 225 sold
1987 300D Turbo Diesel 255k mi sold
1988 300 CE AMG Hammer 15k mi sold
1986 "300E" Amg Hammer 88k mi sold (it was really a 200, not even an E (124.020)
1992 500E 156k mi sold
etc.

Interesting. Why?

Sixto
95 S420
87 300SDL