True, mine has just been good to me. Other than the tranny issue but that was my fault not MB's so I can not blame them for anything other than there choice of where to put R. Oh well though. Also there are certain things I expect from an engine that is brand spanking new and really untested in real life experiences. But mine has actuall been very good and the dealer takes care of me. Maybe that is why I am not bothered, since I do get MB loaners and do not have to worry about getting a loaner. They also pick up my car and drop off the loaner and then come do the swap when done so I do not have to go out of my way for it. Now with the current new designs seen of the C-Class W204 and the fact that the little coupey may not make it back to the states, I may have to reconsider if my next vehicle will be a Benz. Of course I may get a CLK next time but that all depends on what it has for features and all that jazz. I did not buy mine because it said Mercedes Benz on it, I bought it because I liked how it looked, the price, the comfort and of course the features I chose. If the TSX had been out or the new TL things could be diferent today.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

I think i'll keep my W124. Yeah it rides like crap compared to the new cars, it sucks in snow, slow off the line and things in the engine bay look so old the metal looks like stuff you see in an archeological dig, but I think I can live with that thank you very much and I can probably save and do some of the work in my driveway. I have had two MAJOR expenses, head gasket and tranny rebuild after b2 band failure. Catastrophic failures are just not my cup of tea, I almost got rid of it after the tranny thing but I am so glad I did not.

What happens when these things go out of warranty?
I hope people arent buying Benzes because they see my ole gal going down the road

Yeah but catastrophic engine failure???? On a mercedes???Come on I'm sorry but this is one area I expect some perfection for at least 100k dream world be damned!

I would like to clarify a few points:

1) Mercedes is safer that other makes. FALSE

Crash ratings for a Lexus LS 430 are better than an E320.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_lglux.htm

Earlier models are poor in some area's.
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_lglux_earlier.htm

2) Mercedes cars before the 1990's were more reliable than other makes. FALSE
Toyota has been more reliable since the 80's.

3) The only thing wrong with the new Mercedes cars is the electronics. False
Mechanical componets have a high failure rate as well.


According to JD Powers, an 8 year old Lexus is more reliable than a new BMW.

My 94 E320 will probably be my first and last MB. Toyota or Lexus will be my next purchase.

I wish I had found this forum before I bought my E320. The preceived MB quality myth is so widespread, that people believe, all MB cars excel in all area's, including reliability.

Uptill mid 90's, MB were far behind the competition in feature content like electronics (compare a 95 E320 to a 95 Lexus LS400). Then MB over compensated and now they are back tracking again to reduce the non-value added electronics.

Having said that, the failures on my 94 E320 have been items that MB outsourced like Aux Fans, wiring harness, headgasket, ECM, ACC Control Unit etc.

MB built engine and transmission are in like new conditon.

One last item, if MB made 400,000 E320's per year, like Toyota makes Camry's, either MB quality would improve or they would go out of buisness.

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Zafar
94 E320 58000 Miles

Mercedes' strong suite has never been Camry-like reliability. Since the mid 1980's when Toyota and Honda really got it together, pretty much all other brands have been behind in pure reliability.

Where Mercedes shone is in the area of long term "life" of the car as a whole. The most expensive parts of the car were designed to last nearly forever. Even here in the salt-winter belt of the world, W124's are rarely seen with rust. The body looks like it'll last another decade, or more! Engine bottom ends are built to last 500K-miles, maybe more.

Take the example of our 88 626 and our 90 190E. The 626 has a working sunroof and power windows. Heck, the car is in pretty good shape, EXCEPT that the engine is getting a little soft and the tranny is on it's way out. The body is beginning to show some serious signs of rust and will begin to rot away soon. The 190E has a broken antenna, non-working power window (passenger door, driver's side) and other maladies the 626 never has had. Overall, the 626 has required far fewer repairs than the 190E, but the 190E will last many years to come while the 626 is now a lost cause.

Why? Because the M103 in the 190E is still tight and strong. The body is in good condition and various other major parts are in good shape with lots of life left. Heck, even at nearly 400K-km's, the 2.6 has only been opened for a timing chain, and only for peace of mind as it was still well within spec.

So, which one is the "better" car? Well, the 626 has been a loyal servant for nearly 17 years. That's a good run for a car that was about $17,000 back in the fall of 1987. The 190E other the other hand was nearly $50,000 back in 1990! For value, the 626 is miles ahead even considering it's shorter overall life. But, the 626 is an awful (in my opinion) car to drive. The 2.6 is not. IT's still reasonably quick and handles very well considering it's "old" strut suspension. The body structure is incredible and it's still nearly rattle free.

Apples to Oranges...

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

Hence why I said they are like any other car. Although some other cars are of course better or worse than others. Myself I could care less what a survey says, I go by personal experience.

I would not call a few bolts breaking catastrophic. I mean they fixed it and did not need a new engine. I call catastrophic what happened to the 1989 Mercury Cougar XR-7 that had 6000 miles and threw a rod through the cylinder wall catastrophic as Ford sent a full crate motor to replace it. Car was a Demo none the less and not a customers and my mom was driving it and she does not exactly drive like a maniac as I would. Like I said I hammer mine pretty good and think I was the first to tell my Service Writer that I heard a noise from the rear suspension when sliding the rear around left hand corners as well as when hammering it off the line. He told the techy I heard a thumping from the rear when driving spiritedly and the techy had some strange look of what was I talking about on his face. The Advisor told him when I was tossing the rear out. It turned out to be the damn ESP Psuedo LSD crap, the brakes were activating to sping the other tire due to loss of traction with ESP in the off position via the dash button. Stupid MB can't put an LSD rear in and has to do it with electronics and brakes..... Like LSD is that expensive of an option to add.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

McTwin2k man

No one is saying MB don't run into **** at times. Just saying my '90 300-E has 122k on it. It needed a water pump, a thermostate, signal light bulbs twice, break master cylinder,Serpentine belt and tensoner, muffler,coming up to it's second set of front rotors, dist. cap, third cam seal, 2nd set of plug wires- Basicly it needed nothing and coming up on 15 years. This will not be your experience. Granted, you may not want to hold on to a car for that long. Keep in mind the Bremin Germany Factory made something I don't want to get rid off. If the car was made in Tenn. with a Taiwan Engine and the Work Force you get down there, then beleive me, I would be looking at the picture the same way as you and I would be using your words too-, "a mass produced car", "what do you expect."

I just suggesting an era has come and gone, and what you get today is kid stuff out of Mercedes. At least with a Honda or Toyota, you get there and back, although not in the same comfort.

Yeah although I have had to do a lot of work to my 190 since I bought it, the parts and engine have held up for 18 years and 160,000 miles. All I have done is normal maint to get it to where it should have been if the previous owner actually maintained it. As for my C class, the wife wants to keep it til it dies but I am not that optimistic. It is an SC'ed engine so I will get rid of it before it hits 100,000 miles or sooner if I start having problems while still under warranty. On a side note, my family used to own a Dodge Dealership so maybe I am just used to cars breaking!!!! Also had Lincoln Mercury back in the day and AMC/Eagle. So as you may figure there was a lot of broke down cars that I saw. Even Toyota's and Honda's.

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~Jamie
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2003 Pewter C230K SC C1, C4, C5, C7, heated seats, CD Changer, and 6 Speed. ContiExtremes on the C7's.

1986 190E 2.3 Black, Auto, Mods to come soon.....

McTwin2Kman

I'm in the same boat, bought a 2001 VW Turbo Diesel. I'm in the oil business, so I saw the gas situation we have todaystarting back in '01 and wanted a high milage diesel. Back then they discounted the diesel, now it's a premium. Well, the air mass sensor or a bad ground or something kept robbing the car of power. 0 to 60 went to 34 seconds instead of 12.5. Gave VW 5 tries to fix it, they never did and gave me a 2002. I know I'm on borrowed time and will off that car before the 4 yr warrenty is up. Oddly enough I went to thinking my 98 chevy pickup was junk to now thinking it is an easy truck to maintain. The Chevy is still junk but any second rate mechanic in his sleep can fix it. You can't fix a VW. You can't even find room to work on it. It's in the shop now with a burnt out altenator after 32,000 miles of gentle care. This truck does not work, it does not plow, it's just a toy for going to Home Depot and back. In reality I want another diesel but everyting seems to be breaking. I may try a Mercedes Diesel and Drive trane in a Jeep Liberty, but the Jeep side of the equation has me nervous. The other choice is the Honda Accord coming out with its first Diesel. I hate first year cars, but Honda's down side usually is limited to being too low to the ground, eating mufflers and being tinny. Other than those three, they usually run for years. Oh, I forgot Honda uses yerterdays technology. That makes them not to desirable for driving, but reliable. It's amazing , but 15 years ago there were many reliable cars in both economy and hight end. Now the high end cars will bury you at the dealer service center and the reliable cars are just a few of the simple economy models like Toyota Camery, Honda and Suburu. Not very exciting choices for a car you can stick your wife in, have her go 300 miles in to visit reatives and get back without an incident.

One thing you must realize is that an automobile has over 5,000 parts. Even if you have 99% reliability, that means that 1% (or 50 parts) will be problematic.

Hopefully, the parts that will go bad won't let you standing by the side of the road.