Kinpin removal trouble!

[Tomguy]

Ok, I got my kingpin kit today and went to put it on. However I CANT GET THE OLD ONE OUT! The threads are stripped on the one end and the head snapped off the other. To make it worse, when I tried turning it a bit with pliets, the end of it snapped too! I can't get the knuckle out of the upper control arm, as too much of the bolt is still sticking out. I can't hammer it out, pull, twist, etc... the problem is that the bolt is actually BENT inside and will not budge! I am going to get a new 1/4" drill bit to try drilling all the way through (I'm almost halfway through the knuckle) as well as getting a larger one in case removing it still doesn't allow me to remove the bushing.


Does anyone have any SIMPLER and LESS TIME CONSUMING ways to do this? I'm open to any suggestions. I've tried a 5lb mallet, torch, pliers, clamps, etc!

[M_Anker]

I had the same problem getting the kingpin out of the upper control arm. I ended up using a Sawzall with a bi-metal blade to cut the bolt off at both ends, right where the rubber bushings are on the inside of the control arm. That was the only way to do it since the bolt was rounded off on one end and badly mangled on the other. I think it took about a half hour of cutting and two blades because that was a very hard bolt. After the top was free, I was able to remove the nut holding the kingpin to the lower control arm and push it out with a bottle jack under the kingpin.

[psfred]

That's about all that is going to work. If you are really lucky, the threaded instert will still turn, but you aren't saving that kingpin anyway.

You may need to heat the bottom with a torch to get it out if it was seized.

Peter

[Tomguy]

That's part of the problem - it won't turn, presumably because the kingpin bent inside of it is bending it to the point where it won't come out. I didn't think this would be that hard of a job

Also, the (race?) in the upper control arm is pretty worn out. It should be good enough for now, but I'm afraid that it'll only get worse. Is there anything I can do shy of replacing the control arm?

[nachi11744]

you need a good used part. If the kingpin is bent, it is not going anywhere.From the little that I can recall on these cars, if it is that bad, the whole knuckle is scrap.
Sorry.

[Tomguy]

I'm getting that feeling - it's HARD to drill through (granted, I've used my bit to extract 4 or so broken lug bolts, but it wasn't too bad). I need to get a new one but they're like $8 each if memory serves :/... if I can't drill it out then I'll get a new one, but I have no idea where to get a good used knuckle or whatnot...

[psfred]

Tom:

Are you talking about the kingpin itself (vertical pivot for the steering knuckle) or the upper bushing kit? Sounds to me as if you are taking about the upper pivot bolt, not the kingpin (the bolt goes through the top of the kingpin).

If you have the upper control arm free, but the bolt is stuck, you will probably have to heat it with a torch NOT to red hot, please! to get the old threaded insert out. If you can drive the old bolt out after sawing the ends off, do so. Grind the sides off a new 6 mm bolt (I think -- get a bolt that fits) so that the remaining bits fit into the notches in the sleeve where the adjuster wheel fit in. Tighten the nut up good and snug and use the flats (or the nut) to turn the sleeve out. usually VERY tight.

If you are putting a new kingpin in, this wouldn't be a issue as you would be tossing the whole shebang once you got it free from the bottom.

The upper control arm is locked to the eccentric bolt, the bolt and bushing are supposed to rotate in the top of the kingpin. Sounds to me as if the sleeve and bolt stuck from lack of grease, and chewed on the control arm. If you don't think a new bolt will stay put, get an new used control arm.

Peter

[Tomguy]

That's what I'm reffering to Peter - I always thought that was the kingpin! Oh well, you learn something new every day

Alright then... I suppose I could buy a kingpin then to resolve this issue? If so, how easy/hard of a job is that? Is it as simple as turning the top knuckle (kingpin) counterclockwise to remove it from the bottom piece, or is there some voodoo that I should know for this, too?

[M_Anker]

To remove the kingpin, you have to unscrew the nut at the bottom of the steering knuckle. Then you will either be able to pull the kingpin out by hand or do what I did and pump up a bottle jack underneath it and use the weight of the car to push it out.

If you can get the bolt out of the bushing, then you can weld a bolt and nut to on and try to turn it out. It could take a couple hours of heating it and treating with kroil. I was able to save the kingpin by working the threaded bushing (and what was left of the bolt) out with a very large wrench, a vise, and a torch.

Good luck, that job is about as bad as what I am doing right now, rebuilding the gear shift indicator

[Tomguy]

So I know, this is what the kingpin is bolted into, correct? I'm not where my car is right now so it's not like I can just go out and look >_< It would be INFINETLY easier to remove the kingpin to attempt to remove the stupid bolt/insert than to try getting it the way it is now (that is, of course, if it's even POSSIBLE to remove it).

And Peter, I forgot to defend myself: I did grease it! How was I supposed to know that no grease would go in is because the "grease" inside was as hard as a rock and filled with all kinds of crud? I need to check a ton of other joints on my car now (I suppose this is the bad part about it sitting in the NE PA weather for about 5 years) - I need a new one of these because there's play in it, too.



edit: I can't wait to see how much better it handles though!

[psfred]

Tom:

That's the upper trunion, sorry. The pic is of the bottom trunion. The kingpin itself sticks through the bottom bit and has a big nut on the bottom, surely seized by now, sadly....

You have several choices as this point -- you can wrestle with the upper trunion bolt as is, you can try to get the kingpin out, or you can pop the tie rod off, remove the lower trunion bolt (hopefully not totally stuck too!), remove the caliper, and take off the knuckle and kingpin intact.

If the hub turns smoothly on the kingpin without scraping or binding, it's probably worth the effort to get the upper bushing out as there is nothing wrong with the rest of it.

I would think you will have to remove the kingpin anyway to replace the lower trunion, so I would take the knuckle off myself so I would get it in a vise.

A torch and copious quantites of Kroil will get the sleeve out eventually -- I would get it in a vise and see if I could drive the bolt remains out -- you can them have someone weld a bolt to the sleeve so you have something to turn (get a grade 8 or better!) and start working on the sleeve.

I'm sure what happened is that the rubber seals went bad, allowing salt in. This corroded the bolt and sleeve -- thankfully, the threads on the kingpin will probably be OK, at least enough to put a new insert in.

Have fun!

Peter

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Last winter, my '60 Fintail suspension began to screech. I had to remove both grease fittings from my upper kingpin trunnions, dig out the old solidified sludge, then flush the bushings with brakleener and Liquid Wrench. Fortunately they weren't completely seized and the new grease was still able to flow through them.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[Tomguy]

Peter: The pic I posted is "Lower control arm bushing kit" - I got the one for the top. That is the bolt I am referring to when I say I can't get it out (the eccentric bolt).

The hub itself turns perfectly fine on the kingpin without any play whatsoever - the play is in the top and bottom control arm bushings - as well as a little in the upper control arm too, I believe (need to check that out WHENEVER I GET OFF MY ASS and do the subframe mounts, which are sitting in the damn box in the closet...).

So what bolts into that piece that I posted the pic of? It moves when I move the hub/kingpin (it has a lot of play... way too much for my comfort), you sure it isn't the kingpin?

[psfred]

Could be -- the kingpin goes through the lower trunion, held on by a big bolt on the bottom. If it's just play on the control arm and not the fitting rocking on the kingpin, replacing it will fix the play. You still have to take the nut off the bottom of the kingpin.

If it's rocking on the kingpin, you will have to take it off and inspect it. There are some shims in there, I believe, to set the kingpin play on the knuckle.

Peter

[Tomguy]

The whole lower trunion is rocking where it is joined to the control rod, not the kingpin rocking on it. At least I dont think the kingpin is - maybe when I tighten that one I'll find play on the kingpin too, with my current luck