Best W108 choice for daily driver?

[deafen]

Folks,

My wife and I are preparing to have a baby, and so I need to replace some of my vehicles with something a little more sensible. I currently have a '98 Jeep, a '74 VW Thing, and an '84 Honda V65 Sabre motorcycle.

I'm very into having unusual vehicles, and the I'm really into the looks of the W108 models. Depending on which vehicles I sell, I'll have between $4500 and $9000 to spend.

My first instinct is to go with a 280SEL 4.5, since I'm a sucker for a big V8, and the extra backseat space would sure come in handy dealing with a carseat. However, I know they're not as plentiful as some of the 250 models.

My key factors are reliability, availability of parts, and price for a given condition (e.g., I know that $4500 will get a lot nicer 250SE than a 280SEL 4.5). I can easily travel anywhere and drive one back home, so location isn't an issue. I have plenty of time to pick and choose the right vehicle, but I don't have the resources to do a lot of in-person scouting. I'm quite comfortable doing my own maintenance and repairs. Fuel injection is pretty much a must. So here's the question that I want to ask:

GIven those factors, which model(s) would be most appropriate for my needs?

[suginami]

Given your budget, you should be able to buy the most perfect example of a 280 SE(L) 4.5. Browsing at the values of these cars on www.collectorcartraderonline.com , you will see that they are shamefully undervalued.

I have many older issues of The Star Magazine, and in the Nov / Dec 1997 issue there is a great article on the 108 / 109 / 111 chassis written by Rich Taylor, Vintage Editor:

"I like Mercedes Benz W108 / 109 / 111s. I like them a lot. I know they're big, gas-guzzling boxes, but they're also the last of the quality "wooden" Mercedes as opposed to today's "plastic" Mercedes. I find them incredibly solid, rewardingly over-built, and remarkably modern for a model line that ended 25 years ago. And in today's market, at least, shamefully undervalued.... The 280 SE 4.5 is one of my favorite Mercedes, not the least because for years whenever I was around the factory designers or engineers on press trips to Stuttgart, I would always ask "What's the best car Daimler-Benz ever built." Virtually unanimously the Mercedes factory people would say, "Steel suspension W108 sedan with 4.5 liter V8. This is the best Mercedes ever."

[JMela]

Deafen - Found your 4.5 for you. You can thank me later.

Keep your eyes open for rust. Check the wells in the trunk, which is a common place for it.

Ground floor for these stops a good deal under $5k, so take your time and don't pounce on the first one. Unless of course it's this red ebay car.

[psfred]

The 4.5 is by far the best for the following reasons:

Better performance with no real disadvantage in fuel milage (they all stink, milage wise, I only drive mine on weekends!).

EFI rather than mechanical, and you can still get parts.

Bulletproof engine (valve job every 250,000 miles, usually can't wear the bottom out).

Othewise they are all mechanically nearly identical.

Very nice, safe, cars.

Peter

[Mark DiSilvestro]

As a semi-daily driver, the W108 can be a fine choice but I wouldn't use one as my ONLY car. In addition to the 32+ years of age, if you live in an area afflicted with snow and salt, rust will eat them up! I wouldn't overlook the in-line sixes as they're very durable, but good oil pressure is important and may be lacking on neglected, abused examples. Compared to the V8s, the sixes are easy to work on. I prefer the carbureted versions for being the most DIY friendly, without potentially expensive FI headaches, such as $500 electric fuel pumps, specialist repairs to the mechanical injection or, in the case of the V8s, potential problems with the early computerised electronic injection components. In decent tune, the sixes can get significantly better mileage than the V8s, though still not great by today's standards. For the most fun to drive (and better fuel economy), try to find a pre-'70 manual tranny version. As a friend and former owner of a '69 280SE 4-speed used to tell me "These cars feel 500 pounds lighter with a stickshift!"

Happy Motoring, Mark

Happy Motoring, Mark

[300SDog]

Sacrifice the motorcycle, unload the Jeep - but just dont sell the VolksWagon, okay?

If memory serves me well, the Thing was only imported for a couple of years (or less) and came in colors bright orange, bright yellow and bright green....... Sort of the Humvee of it's day, doors and convertible top were removable and the front windshield could fold flat (I think). Did it have wind-up windows or side curtains?

Meanwhile, Rommel himself has been photographed wearing goggles and carrying binoculars riding in the original Afrika Corps prototype version back in WWII.

Furthermore in the Field Marshall's diaries he attributes success to faking detachments of dummy panzer tanks using VW Things with wooden and sheetmetal siding plus some kinda pipe to resemble a gun turret. Then he would deploy these fake tanks in moving formation on distant ridges to drive Montgomery's forces where he wanted them to be. Also to draw fire away from the actual assault.

I kid you not!! Outnumbered and ill-equipped, Rommel attributed much of his success to faking out the Brits with dummy panzer VW Things. Dunno how long this scam lasted, but it apparently worked on more than one occasion.

So for cryin out loud, do NOT sell the Volkswagon Thing!!

[Dana B.]

I agree. Dump the Sabre. Sell the Jeep. But keep the VW Thing (Kubelwagen). Heck, if you don't buy an MB, you could retro it up to look like this: http://www.voitures-d-ingenieurs.com/kubelwagen.htm

[ctaylor738]

There is some good advice here. Mercedes production workers, when surveryed, thought that the 280SEL 4.5 was the best car Mercedes ever built. In your price range, you should be able to find the best one on the planet.

But also in that price range, consider a lower-mileage 380SE. Also the 450SE (and 450SEL?), especially the earlier ones with the chrome bumpers, go for peanuts.

[j9fd3s]

ive had or driven the following;

62 220s stick
67 250s stickshift
69 280s auto
and the 300sel 3.5

and considering mileage, power, ease of repairs, etc, i think a 280se stick would be the best combo, the v8 would be a close second, its harder to work on and gets worse mileage.

[deafen]

Wow, thanks for all the great advice. I'm definitely leaning toward keeping the Thing, because even though I've only had it a short while, I really feel a connection to it. Besides, my wife likes it too.

Also, I've gotten a couple emails from folks with cards to sell. Thanks for the offers, but I'm probably not looking to make a move until next spring. (Better time to sell the jeep, and better time for other financial stuff.)

One thing I've noticed is that parts for these guys seem to be *really* expensive. $200 for a set of points? $600 for a fuel pump? Is this just because they're so rare, or is there some profiteering going on among parts sellers?

[deafen]

Other than the usual stuff (oil, transmission, radiator, diff, chassis lube), are there any weird maintenance items on these cars? Periodic valve adjustments and such?

Does the EFI require any maintenance?

[Mark DiSilvestro]

Most normal maintenance items aren't so outrageous, but there will be some expensive items. If you're in a major metropolitan area, you may have several local parts sources to choose from. There's also Fastlane/PartsShop on this Forum and other mail-order Mercedes Parts suppliers, as well as Hemmings and Ebay. And if no one else has it, you can probably still get it from Mercedes, for the highest price! (But hey, what other auto manufacturer still supplies parts for their 30-40 year old cars?)
Some of those high parts prices mostly apply to the fuel injected versions (See my comments on carb vs fuel injection) The mechanically injected sixes do use an expensive OE fuel pump but cheaper aftermarket replacements are availible. Those '$200 points' are probably the injector trigger points used on the early V8 EFI. The ignition points shouldn't cost anywhere near $200.

The W108 cars do have a bunch of grease fittings on the front suspension and a couple more on the rear swing-axle pivot. They also have a gas/oil leveling cylinder mounted on the rear swing-axle that's a real expensive item, but the much cheaper coil spring unit, for the earlier Fintail, cars can be used as a replacement. Manual gearboxes require ATF, not gear oil. If they haven't been replaced recently, the car may need motor mounts and subframe mounts. Even if they look OK, expect to replace aged rubber brake hoses. They could collapse and stop up internally, causing the brakes to drag and overheat. When you go to check out possible candidates, oil pressure should read at max on a cold engine and, at hot idle, shouldn't drop much below about 15 PSI (I prefer around 20 PSI myself). Once the car gets moving, hot oil pressure should hit max quickly and stay there

Happy Motoring, Mark

[psfred]

IGNITION points are $8.

EFI TRIGGER points are $280 or so, maybe more by now. Fuel pumps are steep because they haven't been used in anything else since 1975....

No one said these were CHEAP to maintain or restore, only that you get what you pay for, and they do, in fact, still run pretty good after 30+ years. A goodly proportion of the original numbers made are still around, and usually die from terminal rust (although I've seen some with freeze fractures blocks from neglect).

Good thing you only need trigger points every 200,000 miles or so!

Peter

[deafen]

Oh, okay. That makes more sense then.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really looking for "cheap," although I am interested in "value." And from reading around the forum, it doesn't seem like there are really a lot of problems with durability. I just like to be sure.

As for the rust issue, after shopping around for (and buying) an early 70's VW, I've got a healthy respect for how badly it can damage without looking too bad.

Again, thanks, guys!

[j9fd3s]

value is there, and its nice to have the factory/support/recognition. ive worked for mazda for years and they arent sure what they made before about 88 at this point.

also for a 30 year old car they drive really well