78 280 SE Cold Start issues

[waybomb]

Hi all
Looking to buy what appears to be a very nice 78 280SE. The present owner is only the second; the first owning until just this year.
The seller says it starts rough, sometimes dieing a few times before it warms up. Once it is warmed up, it alledgedly runs great. And if it is warmed up, shut off for a while, and started back up, it runs ok then too.

Was reading the thread :
"Engine misses badly when cold
Gregg Bambo Jr."

His issues sound very similar to what the owner of "my" 78 280se says about his car. Are these similar engines and injection systems?

If not, any ideas what could be wrong?

The car is Jersey and I'd have to fly there to check it out, and would like to know what I'm getting myself into.

[wbain5280]

Greg has an early 60's 220SE coupe with Bosch mechanical FI and the 280SE has Bosch CIS injection, which is completely different.

These W116 cars rust a lot, and New Jersey uses salt on the roads during the winter, so look for rust.

Do a search in the Vintage forum for 280SE, W116, or hard starting, for example. The Moderator, Chuck Taylor, just bought a 280SE. Ask him for some info.

Look here:

http://www.w116.org/

[Larry Delor]

I would like to suggest to look for vacuum leaks (at thermostatically controlled devices) and by the intake. Also there is some sort of temp. gadget of sorts that mounts to the block, and has a line or two going to it, and an electrical connector...it is some sort of temp. regulator. See if the cold start valve is doing its thing (looks alot like an injector, but it is usually mounted on the intake manifold).

Good luck...

[waybomb]

Thanks guys
The owner says there is no rust. He's provided pictures and I see none. He also says he's fairly certain the paint is original and does not see signs of bondo or any body repair. He seems like an honest person.

Anyway - anybody live near Camden, N.J. that may want to go look at the car for me, and promises not to buy it out from under me if it is as good as described?

[ctaylor738]

Where to start?

The components that help cold start and warm-up are the cold start valve, the warm-up compensator (WUC), and the auxiliary air valve. All are more or less thermostatically controlled to provide more air and fuel until the engine hits operating temperature.

If the engine fires quickly but then runs rough and dies, then the cold start valve and its thermo-time switch are probably working.

The next step would be to check the cold control pressure with a guage between the fuel distributor and the WUC. It should be 7-13 psi at 32 deg and 12-18 at 50.

When the engine is cold, the aux air valve should be providing enough extra air to boost the RPM to 1300-1500. If the engine is dieing from a low idle, then this would be a prime suspect. It could be the valve itself, or a bad hose.

Both the WUC and the aux air valve are expensive and hard to get to - under the intake manifold.

As pointed out, vacuum leaks could also cause problems with warm-up.

Be careful. These cars are not sought-after. You could easily spend more than the car is worth fixing this problem.

[waybomb]

Hi Chuck
How expensive is expensive for these parts?

BTW - I used to know a Chuck Taylor when I lived in Maryland - he lived between the Bay Bridge and Baltimore - is this you?

[ctaylor738]

The WUC is 519 and the aux air valve is 197 - FYI you can check them yourself on FastLane. Ask Phil to "match ***************" and they'll be a little less.

I'm not the Maryland CT - lived in VA since 1979 and Seattle before that.

Don't let your heart get in front of your head on this car!

Good luck.

[Larry Delor]

Thought I should mention that there is a 280CE being parted out up the road...it might still have those parts on there, for considerably less dinero.
(just in case you actually do need one of both of those parts)

[hos280]

is this the metallic light blue 280 se in NJ i saw 6 months ago? cars.com

I bought a similar car (1977 280E) and found a bunch of stuff I didn't ask about.

check the heating system carefully. they have a servo that is a mess $$ and most likely broken. if the fan only blows on defrost, then be wary of the heat system. also, when was the starter last replaced? mine was the original and lasted 1 month. alternator as well. these are not hi dollar items but can be if they fail together.

does it need a new battery? mine lasted about 3 weeks.
does he drive it all the time, or has it sat for a while? that was the case for my car and sure enough as i started using it every day things started to fail?

if you have a nice set of tools and are a glutton for punishment, go for it.


i think i have finally gotten on top of my car and it seems stable. here is a list i have doen to get this thing running smoothly

new plugs and wires
new starter
new alt
new battery
tranny service
radiator flush
oil change
heat bypass
aux pump
fuel filter


have fun

[waybomb]

No, it is a white one, with a blue tex interior.