W114 280 recent purchase - your opinion

[myork]

I just bought a 1972 W114 Sedan on the weekend. I was smitten the moment I viewed it and thought I would share my initial views on the car given that this is my first "vintage" car.

The Good,
Very good body, no visible body rust, some surface rust in the trunk, very good paint. 19K miles but I expect it's been around once, just can't imagine it's that low? The glasswork is perfect. The interior is close to perfect and everything but the cigar lighter works (the door panels, carpet, headliner and seats all look brand new). The suspension and steering are nice and tight with a surprisingly good ride given the vintage.

So that's the good news... It has poor idle characteristic, not really bad just a little rough. The AT shifts hard on the up shifts (very smooth on the down shifts). The exhaust has rusted around the entry to the center silencer. There is an annoying whine from either the transmission or diff at higher speeds, haven’t worked that one out yet. There are no service records. The PO fitted 185/60 performance tires, makes the wheels look terribly small (the same size as the ones on my miata) and obviously impacts the speedo reading and rpm at highway speeds. There is major hesitation going from part to WOT, this diminishes significantly as the speed increases. There is a ticking noise coming from the engine, which increases with RPM, not noticeable around town, but annoying on the highway (valve lifter?).

The question: I bought the car as a daily driver looking for something cheap, stylish and simple enough that I could work on it myself. I'm starting to wonder if I got in over my head? I'm hoping that the members here can help quantify how deep I am in? The car cost $4,800 (that's Canadian) certified did I pay too much?

[300SDog]

About 30 yrs ago when first getting into Vintage MB's, I always took new purchases to trusted independent mechanic for their 'first' tune-up...... then i would keep them in tune myself from that point forward.

This always made maintaining the car easier, learning as I went along, having everything set up from the beginning correctly, and attacking every *new* symptom or problem immediately before multiple things went wrong.

Many of the symptoms you've described sound like multiple adjustments to me..... including the hesitation, idling, valve clatter and tranny shifting.

Are you sure that you want to make a "learning experience" out of tuning an engine yourself with 1/2 dozen things already out of adjustment when you are not familiar with the engine?

There are no valve lifters on the 280, but it would be wise for you to pull the valve cover and check the lobes and rockers for wear, also check clearances and timing chain stretch while you are in there. That's where i would start.

(edit: "surprisingly good ride given the vintage."...... No surpise there, everybody agrees the 114 has superior handling and ride to later 123's. Hell, I'd trade my 123 for comparable 114/115 any day of the week.

[nachi11744]

Hello,
If you are not a stickler for *technical correctness* and a cheapskate like me, I would suggest that you wire the secondaries shut on the infamous Solex 4A1 carb, that will give you about 90mph flat out and at least 80mph up hills and save a load of gasoline. Other stuff like the bad idle will have to sorted after fixing the exhaust leaks etc.
The tapping is probably the valve gear, I think most owners have no idea about adjusting it, plus there is a special tool involved, which usually does not work after the adjusters have not been touched for twenty odd years.
The W114/115 cars do have a good ride because the front subframe sits on four rubber blocks that will need replacing on your car by now if it has not been done in 3-4 years ago. BTW, the W123 has much softer spring rates than the comparable W114/115.
Hope that is of some help

[myork]

Thanks you both for your reply. I'll take the advise to get the car to an independent. I do have a trusted mechanic but he just laughed when I brought the car over advising I'd be best off with a specilist, guess it's not his cup of tea.

Given no other major problems what sort of cost do you think I am looking at for the "adjustments"? yes I too am cheap and will do it myself given direction. Would you have the muffler replaced at a generic muffler shop (MIDAS, Speedy etc) or a specialist, not sure how much work is involved with the double manifold? I think I need to swap the tires our to 205/70/14, seems like others have had good experience with this size? Any ideas on a good independent in the Toronto area?

One last thing, what's the best shop manual and a good source for such a copy?

Cheers, good to be on board and on the learing curve

[tkotanch]

Nachi is right about diabling the secondary barrells of the dreaded Solex 4A1 I have a '73 and when I first took it to my mechanic, he told me a previous owner had done exactly that. I have to tell you...it runs great. I've had it up to 75 - 80 on the highway and there is room to continue. I don't push it any more..it is still a 32 year old car.

I may have to sell this one as I just purchased a 1985 300SD but the more I drive it, the more I love it. If I can find any way to keep it, I will.

Enjoy,

Tom

[230/8]

I agree that what you have described are symptoms of a car needing adjustment. Does your car have single or twin carbs? If twin, then they are likely 32/40 Zeniths which can be troublesome for the inexperienced. The big Solex is very similar to a Rochestor Q-jet and some folks simply replace them with Q-jets or Holleys (Check JAM Engineering for Holleys. They also carry good Zenith to Weber conversions.)

As to the trans, They shift firmly as a normal trait. The modulator may be needing attention or replacement. But unless it is slamming into gear,bam bam, it's probably just behaving normally for its age. Give it some fresh fluid and filter and you should be good to go.

For tires, I'd recommend the 185/75/14 size. They fit perfectly and won't affect the speedo. TireRack has a super price on Pirelli P400s, I put them on my 230/8 and they are great.

Before replacing any sub-frame mounts I'd have them checked. If your suspension is not sagging enough to cause alignment problems then it probably won't be cost effective to replace them. Others may disagree on this point, but you only have a few bucks in this ride so stretch your time between major expenditures where you can.

Give it an electrical tune up, adjust the valves and carb(s) and timing, check the heat risers to keep them free working (can cause stalling) ensure all the vacuum fittings are tight and see how it runs.

Also, check that timing chain and the tensioner. The chain should be good if the oil has been changed regularly, but the tensioner can cause you serious problems if it fails. Cheap to replace and a good idea at 119,000 miles. That's when mine failed.

Good luck and happy motoring in a great little car.

230/8

[pxland]

Originally Posted by myork

The question: I bought the car as a daily driver looking for something cheap, stylish and simple enough that I could work on it myself. I'm starting to wonder if I got in over my head? I'm hoping that the members here can help quantify how deep I am in? The car cost $4,800 (that's Canadian) certified did I pay too much?

Never admit such a thing. Two things never happen with me when I buy cars, I never make a mistake and I never get in over my head.

Trust in the Forum, it knows all. Once you get familiar with the inner-workings of your car you'll find they are really quite easy and make a lot of sense (engineering wise. Try that with a transverse mounted Cadillac V-8).

You'll be fine with it.

PX

[myork]

Thanks all. I have a post going over on mbcanada.com to find a good mechanic in the Toronto area. I have received a few suggestions so I should be able to have the few things looked at in the next week, I'll keep you posted

The only reason I question the purchase is the old ladies car jokes, especially those from my wife (something about I should have consulted with her before I bought the car, is there a husband in dog house area on the forum? ) but I remain resolute in the enjoyment of the character of this car. As a point of reference I gave up an RX8 (speeding liability) for this, my other car is a highly modified miata so this makes a nice sedate change.

Cheers.

[nachi11744]

As a point of reference I gave up an RX8 (speeding liability) for this, my other car is a highly modified miata so this makes a nice sedate change.

Hello,
The 205/70x14 tyres were the factory size in Europe for the W114 280/C/CE.
Once you are more familiar with it, I think you will find that it is a surprisingly agile car for it's size and early 60s engineering.
IMHO, modern cars have no subtlety in the engineering, what with 265/35x20 tyres, anything will stick to asphalt.
For many years, I drove an Opel Manta A and with tiny 185/70x13 tyres, it still takes some very costly cars to better the steering response and general agility it demonstrated.
Have a good weekend.