"Bunt Cake Tin" Wheels on a Finny?

[Hecke-ster]

Hello,

I've seen some newer style wheels put on an old finny and I'm wondering if most later-style wheels have the same bolt pattern and will slip right on, or did this car that I saw have a major undercarriage-modernization to a newer style bolt-pattern? Did MBZ stick with one bolt pattern through all this time?

I'm specifically interested if those "bunt cake tin" (for lack of better description!?) wheels will fit right on to my '65 190D? I think those wheels are most common to the W123 series cars from the 70's?

[mikemover]

Originally Posted by Hecke-ster

Hello,

I've seen some newer style wheels put on an old finny and I'm wondering if most later-style wheels have the same bolt pattern and will slip right on, or did this car that I saw have a major undercarriage-modernization to a newer style bolt-pattern? Did MBZ stick with one bolt pattern through all this time?

I'm specifically interested if those "bunt cake tin" (for lack of better description!?) wheels will fit right on to my '65 190D? I think those wheels are most common to the W123 series cars from the 70's?

I've seen that done on several cars, and I think it looks great. I also think it's a direct bolt-on....

Mike

[300SDog]

Heck-ster, Gotta have bundt-cake bolts to make it work.... also save a set of original steel ones if you use 13" steel rim for the spare.

Nobody's said nothin about problems going from 13 to 14" wheels that I've heard.

[Hecke-ster]

Excellent point. I'll have to look into how much those bolts might cost. That might effect the total price of some used ones I have a possible deal on.

My main concern was if the actual bolt pattern measurments were the same between older and newer models. I didn't think about the actual diameter measurment though. I don't think this would be a major change however on overall performance or engine-load.

[mikemover]

Originally Posted by 240DieselDog

Heck-ster, Gotta have bundt-cake bolts to make it work.... also save a set of original steel ones if you use 13" steel rim for the spare.

Nobody's said nothin about problems going from 13 to 14" wheels that I've heard.

Good point about the bolts.

The alloy bundts require a longer bolt, but if you use a steel wheel for a spare, use the original shorter bolts with it....the long ones will hit the brake mechanism and really screw things up.

Mike

[300SDog]

Dunno Oregon prices, but I'd be thinkin $175 tops for set of 4 with not-bad tires. Hopefully including the lugbolts too, or snag the bolts from junkyard w123.

MB made bundt-cakes 2 widths, one was 1/2" wider, same 14" diam for deluxe sedans like the 116 / 6.9..... but you probably wanna avoid the wider ones for your manual steering(?) 110.

Bundt-cake lore says they're aerodynamic and chill the brakes too. That's why they black out with brake dust on the huge 116 sedans.

Am glad to see somebody paddling around in 190Dc these days, happy to help with any info i can. Most folks are scared to death to drive the 110/diesel, gotta be completely fearless. That's probably the most hair-raising and hilarious Vintage MB available for anybody with guts enough to drive it. Maybe swapping from 13" to 14" rims in lightweight alloy will add 4-6 mph top speed, who knows?

Please get back to this thread to report any performance improvement after you've installed em.

[Hecke-ster]

Ha,

That made me laugh. "Fearless" huh? To tell the truth, I've only taken it for spin of about a 150 yards so far. I got it for what I consider a steal, but of course there was a major problem with the shifting. After much sweating and unhooking things in tight spaces, I had to take the whole stearing column out, fix the linkage, then put it all back in. My first test drive however told me that I need to work on a little adjustment to get the shifting play just right. Just getting it moving under its own power was a triumph though.

So... yes, the engine is still running like a champ although I unfortunately have very slim information as to how it was treated all its life. Driving it that short distance I was thinking to myself, "This sounds and feels a bit like a darn diesel mercedes TRUCK!!!" I must say it's one heck of a cool and stylish old truck though. I've only seen one other primo-condition one in my city here so far, but they are around. I do tend to see more 200 finbacks though, which I think tend to be more collectible.

This is the perfect starter benz for me though. It's kind of a no-frills cabby version. I think the side-fender mounted turn signals are unique and distinctive. Why do you attribute courage to 190 drivers though? Is it mostly the heavy slowness?

I'm not planning on this being a highway cruiser myself. I just wanted a 'round-towner with some distinction, and diesel as a potential hedge against whatever may happen with fossil oil (will going biodiesel with it...). I'm not a speed demon myself. My philosophy is to take my sweet time and enjoy the ride anyway.

[Hecke-ster]

Oh.... and in response to dieseldog and mikemover up above... you said that I'd need longer bolts...?

This confuses me because I thought that the bolts are welded to the hubs permanently? I thought that wheel bolts were usually mounted permanently to the hub assembly (or brake-drum), so you were pretty stuck with the length of bolt you were given...? Do my bolts come off from the back!? I already had to take a wheel off for a little bit to get under at some shift-linkage unhooking nuts, but I didn't notice the bolts being different at all. I just loosened the nuts, took them off the protruding bolts, and took the wheel off...?

1. Later model M-Bs (and Euro cars generally) come with _bolts_ ("lugs") which go through the wheel into threaded holes in the hub from the outside. Many other cars have _studs_ pressed (not welded) into the hubs which take a nut ("lug nut") on the outside to hold the wheel on. Some previous posters are assuming your car has the later model arrangement.

2. In any case, make sure that when you bolt the wheels on, the nuts or bolts engage at least as much length of threads as the thickness of the bolt, and a little more would be better -- it is typical to have about 17mm of bolt sticking out the back of the wheel when you have the bolt rather than the stud type. Since the aluminum wheels are thicker in the web, they often need a longer stud or bolt. They also require bolts or nuts with the proper profile machined into the surface which contacts the wheel -- Bundts usually have a hemispherical rather than a straight tapered contact area.

3. Bundt cake rims look nice on older cars, but if you intend to drive this beast a lot, consider going all the way to 15" rims. It's getting hard to buy 14" tires in real high performance handling varieties, except the huge ones for old Camaroes, etc, although BFG Radial T/As still cover many 14" sizes. Soft riding and spongy handling 14" will probably always be available, though, if that's your preference.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

The 14 inch steel rims from early 108 cars will bolt right on your Fintail AND have the built-in nubs to hold your original hubcaps. Bundt-cake alloys will require driving the wheel studs out of the hubs and pressing in longer ones. The original/equivalent 185/80R13 tires for the Fintails are just about extinct, while there are still many choices left in 14 inch tires. One thing to consider though, if you're planning a switch to fatter, better performing tires, is that with manual steering, that Fintail will be a bear to park!

Happy Motoring, Mark