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#1
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280SEL Sudden Brake Problems - Should I Be Suspicious?
Hey all, new to the forum. I have owned a '73 280SEL for around a year and love it. Here is my issue.
After having a mechanic (in Pittsburgh, and well regarded for work on these old Mercedes) put the original rims back on the car (the previous owner had put oversized rims and tires on), and after having it back for just a couple of days, SUDDENLY the brakes froze up - lots of smoke, etc. The mechanic tells me the caliper locked up...frying the lines, the master cylinder, and a bunch of other things...cost of $1300.00! He says the replacement of the rims would have had nothing to do with what happened because 'we don't touch any of the brake parts to replace the rims'. I find this very hard to believe. Any help on this? Ideas? Defense strategies?,...lol. Thanks very much. Last edited by TheJacket; 08-08-2005 at 02:20 PM. Reason: Better title |
#2
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hey,
When replacing rims, as long as they are the original rims, original brake setup, there is no way that could have broken a caliper. but... When a caliper locks up, its either from a master cylinder going wrong and locking up that caliper or the caliper just got stuck and damaged the master cylinder by doing so.The lines in your wheel wells are ,I imagine, old. They should be around 15 bucks each here on fastlane parts supply. When a caliper locks up, the pad gets worn quickly especially if it smoked, the rotor is going with it and the caliper has to get either rebuilt or replaced. I did a full job on my 78 450sel which should be the same chassis as yours with a full front caliper rebuilt and with a friend installing it for a $150 total, I paid a little over $700 total. That included master cylinder, rotors, pads, flex lines, and front caliper rebuild. Parts from mercedes would have cost me around $1500 so do a little research and order everything online and have him install it. Peter |
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Thanks so much. It just seemed like VERY odd timing...all these brake parts going to hell, just 48 hours after the original rims were put back on.
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#4
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Not so fast...I have heard of problems after people have switched back to using stock wheels but used lug bolts from the aftermarket wheels which were too long and caused problems because they went too far into the hubs...any chance your lug bolts were too long??? I recall another posting on another forum where a guy did this and could not turn any of the wheels after using the wrong lug bolts.
Just a thought.
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Marty D. 2013 C300 4Matic 1984 BMW 733i 2013 Lincoln MKz |
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DEPENDING on which chassis you have. I am unfamiliar with the 116 chassis, but if you're talking about a 108 (1973 in the US were still 108's mostly)...
If the bolts are too long for the rear wheels (IE: Used alloy bolts on steel wheels), they WILL hit the emergency brake shoes in the rear and tear them up! No damage will result to the front because of this. If ONE locked up, then that's a pretty high replacement cost for one caliper and set of pads! If the master cylinder itself froze (which is what it sounds like), it's unrelated to the wheels.
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Current: 2021 Charger Scat Pack Widebody "Sinabee" 2018 Durango R/T Previous: 1972 280SE 4.5 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited "Hefe", 1992 Jeep Cherokee Laredo "Jeepy", 2006 Charger R/T "Hemi" 1999 Chrysler 300M - RIP @ 221k |
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Here's what I would say happened:
No, you don't have the wrong lug nuts. Those would have immediately caused a problem, right when the mechanic tried to take it off the lift. What probably happened was..... Your brake flex hoses were very marginal. They guys put the car on the lift and your bad front subframe mounts allowed the front subby including the brake calipers to sag bigtime, stretching the front hoses. This was the final straw for the insides of the front hoses which were probably like marshmallows already. The damaged front hose(s) becomes a check valve at this point. You can step on the brake pedal and force fluid through the hose, but the fluid can't return when you let off, and the pressure is held on that wheel. Meanwhile, you continue driving with that brake dragging and getting hotter than hell. You step on the brakes a few more times, forcing in more fluid pressure, and creating more heat. Pretty soon the brake pads are smoking, break fluid is boiling in the caliper, etc. If it were mine, I hang a set of hoses on it......All of them! And then flush the brake fluid until nothing but clear, clean fluid was coming out the bleeders. Then I'd go drive it and see how it goes. You should throw new pads on it too because they are probably roasted from getting so hot. Last edited by Todd Miller; 08-09-2005 at 12:14 PM. |
#7
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An easy test for restricted hoses.
Jack wheel Push pedal down hard once Turn wheel by hand If hard to turn, open bleeder If wheel frees up w/bleeder opened , hose is bad . If wheel still hard to turn, caliper is frozen , or if rear brakes, could also be bad emergency brake adjustment/cable. If all wheels do it , possible Master or pivot of the relay lever behind booster is sticking.. [ this is where the pedal rod comes to push the booster in..common on older Benz and a new pivot pin kit is available - or lube] As previous post states, hoses are always first suspect on an old Benz..they look great from the outside , but restrict on the inside to the point of holding pressure on the pistons..same as riding the brake pedal... |
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Excellent responses, folks..many, many thanks. The 'suspicious timing' of this brake problem (it WAS the master cylinder that crapped out) sounds like what Todd Miller guessed.
You hit the symptomatic nail on the head..that is exactly what was happening prior to everything locking up. And yes, all of the hoses are being replaced...along with nearly everything else.... TELL HIM WHAT HE'S WON JOHNNY!!!! LOL.... |
#9
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Well, the good news is that the brake system will last you another 30+ years. Just make an effort to flush the brake fluid every 2-3 years and it'll always be nice.
You might think about semi-metallic pads all the way around. PBR pads are excellent quality and you'll enjoy much great stopping power, especially when hot. |
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