Choosing a vintage MB

[findude]

Thanks to everyone who replied to my post on what to consider, and the potential value of, a 250SE Coupe. I will be pursuing the lead I have on this car and looking at others as well.

But I should share the question I did not ask, the question that had me checking out the 250SE coupe in the first place. . . .

I am "planning" on attempting a run of "The Great Race" in a few years (see http://www.greatrace.com/). Almost all the cars in this race are American, but there have been a few MBs over the years--mostly 300SLs and a 220S Ponton that someone has run a few times.

The rules allow entry of any car that is at least 45 years old (model year) for the year in which the car is run. Since I will probably not run this race until about 2010 or a bit later, I figured I could look at cars as new as 1965.

This is a 4,000 mile rally (technically not a race, but a time-speed-distance rally), and after that I have to drive back to the east coast. So, figure that I need a car that I can count on to cover 7,000 miles in under four weeks under a wide variety of conditions during the summer. Some of the folks running the great race drive old Indy racers--open wheel race cars that are 70+ years old, but I am inclined to pass these miles in relative comfort with a radio and air conditioner. I've been a Mercedes fan since I was a little kid, so that seems like the logical choice. So, here's what I have in mind:

--Model year 1965/66 or older
--Gasoline (I know that diesel would be a good choice, I just don't like them)
--A very solid car. I need one that can go the distance and I don't want to restore it first.
--I'm not a fan of the SLs (I'm 6'2").
--A sedan is OK, but I prefer a coupe.
--Avoid cars for which parts are very hard to find (means avoiding the 300SE fintails).
--Not too expensive--probably rules out all the cabriolets.

As you can tell, I'm pretty much left with these choices:
--220S or 220SE Ponton sedan or coupe
--Fintail sedan
--111 coupe (cabriolet is too expensive, but I would do it at the right price--drivers of convertibles have to commit to either leaving the top up or down for the whole race regardless of conditions.

I've more or less concluded that a 111 coupe would be the best choice--or else a fintail sedan, preferably a 111 with a six cylinder engine.

Anyway, fire away with the suggestions. I'm all ears.

Thanks, Kevin

[nckmsn]

does it matter how old the engine is? Maybe you could find a decent benz without a motor and put one in that will go the 7,000. I think that you are crazy not to get a diesel. i would go for a 190d fintail. You could get a very nice one for less money than your coupe. Maybe i dont understand this race, but if you just need to make it, I would think a newer gas motor, or a diesel motor of any age would be good. how much are you looking to spend?

1966 marked the first year of the w108 sedan, which offers a lot more front seat head and legroom than the w111 coupe. I referring to either a 250S or 250SE.

OTO the fintail sedan had a great rallying reputation in it's day.

[findude]

The race is a time-speed-distance rally, a test of precision driving rather than speed. The "perfect" time for each stage of the rally is determined in advance. You get your instructions 20 minutes before starting each stage. You get points off for each second you are ahead or behind of the ideal time. Whoever has the lowest score at the end wins. There are different classes, and there is also a handicapping system for very old cars (nobody expects a 100-year old brass-era car to keep up with more "modern" vehicles.

I agree that a 190D would make a good choice. Each car has to have the original drivetrain and is subject to a rigorous, expert technical review before starting the race and again after finishing.

An excellent choice would be a fintail 220SE sedan--as you pointed out they do have an excellent rally history. I don't have the financial fortitude to deal with a 300SE sedan as much as I like them.

[snp8990]

I have a 230S Fintail, VERY RELIABLE. Mechanically great. The 230S was the highest model (Besides the 300SE). I was reading a book that came with the car that shows a picture of a 230S on a race course going 75 mph and in captions it says "The new 230S manuevers at 75 mph and hardly shows an lean". Its a beauty. I live in PA and the car is for sale. I am not a motivated seller, but if you want to buy it im more than happy to sell it to you. Its a 1968 230S original radio (would be great when your racing all the older cars, listenin to the old radio)original horn. Contact me at Snp8990@yahoo.com if you want to check it out or if your interested.

[Mark DiSilvestro]

I would recommend a 6-cylinder Fintail, over the Ponton, due to it's better handling and safety, or one of the early 108s if it meets the age requirement by the time of your rally. If ease of DIY / roadside repairs is important, I would suggest one of the carb models (220S, 230S, 250S) over the fuel-injected SE, which would leave out the coupes.

Happy Motoring, Mark

[PagodaLover]

I see no reason to rule out the SL with you being 6'2". I am taller than you and have ample room in SL cars. However, then price becomes the issue.

Personally, I like 250SE, 280SE.

[300SDog]

Just my opnion, but those guys entering high speed vehicles have gotta be out of their minds. With a 1916 Hudson winning the race last year, high speed performance caint have anything to do with winning the rally and might even interfere with success.

Anybody driving a high speed race car (300SL, etc) will have tougher time keeping the car operating at optimal legal speed to win the rally. I once had opportunity to drive a modern 500S for a healthy spin working for a "drive your car" limo/transportation company that met folks at airports in their own car - and it was a job keeping the damned thing under 85-90 mph when driving the car solo to pick em up.

Can recommend a 190c fintail with Kuhlmeister AC if you need creature comforts. And it will keep you driving hammer down without going so fast that you loose the race.

I think cadence is key for winning road rallies and meeting checkpoints on time. And what you dont want to do is drive too fast where you end up taking lots of time-out breaks to compensate and having a tougher time logging and calculating your time.

And the 190c oughta earn points with judges too, as car of timeless design every bit as practical and functional today as it was back in the 1960's. Interestingly 110 chassis 190's sold at/near a whopping $2,000 when new and in darned good condition they trade at about the same today, as if time hasnt changed - still the same ultimate economy car at exactly the same price. LOL, its kinda like the 4cyl "third world taxi cab" Benz is gold standard around which the rest of the economy revolves.

As I've said, for performance characteristics it's probably perfect for rally competition where steady consistent speed within speed limits in critical. The 4 cyl 190 should easily reduce your margin for driver error at keeping on schedule and when the rally is over you might even want to make it your daily driver.

(edit: Interesting fact, 10mph difference in speed can amount to one day difference in driving time going from coast to coast taking normal breaks for sleep and food...... That's about 3,000 miles at either 60mph or 70mph - do the math.