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  #1  
Old 03-31-2006, 02:04 PM
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stalling w111

Hi guys,
is there an adjustment somewhere on the tranny to regulate "drag" when stopped in gear? The engine runs fine and I have the idle set at a little under 1000 rpm but when in gear it wants to stall.

thanks, opossum

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German autos!!!
'67 250se coupe
'89 190e 2.6
'05 BMW x5
'59 0319 diesel Omnibus.
Italian bikes!!!
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  #2  
Old 04-01-2006, 08:24 PM
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Sounds like your fuel/air/spark is not right. You can get great idle but it can also have no power. The reason for a compression stroke is to compress as much air and atomized fuel into as small an area as possible and then ignite it. Too much fuel and air and it explodes the engine, too little and it acts wimpy.

Now that was the simple part. The complicated part is determining which of those three is incorrect (and it can be all three).

As for w111 you don't say if it has a 2 or 6 plunger MFI. If its a 2 plunger MFI check the spark plugs color. Changes between 1-3 and 4-6 indicate a plunger/injection pump problem. Color changes between individual plugs indicate fouling injectors, or defective plug wire. You can switch injectors on 6 plunger unit you CAN NOT switch injectors on a 2 plunger. Actually you can switch injectors on a 2 plunger, providing you send me $400 and the injectors so I can figure out how to unswitch your switch.
If color of the plugs is consistant, then you might only need to adjust the fuel /air mixture.
This is really a very very simple piece of info on w111 with MFI. If you do not already have a MB service book get one. You can find one for about $50 on ebay and they are worth their weight in gold.
Leonard
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  #3  
Old 04-01-2006, 09:04 PM
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All 250se are PES 6 plunger MFI..

If you have A/c , there is a Constant Speed Solinoid that idles up the rpm for both in gear and a/c .
If not, then you have a vac operated dashpot that can be adjusted for In Gear rpm increase.. Both are on te cross over shaft at the intake ...
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  #4  
Old 04-02-2006, 11:19 AM
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Arthur
Yes, all 250se are 6 plungers, but not all W111 are 6 plungers, we are assuming that the w111 is a 250 se, which it probably is. The constant speed solenoid (lifting magnet) could cause the trouble, but I would focus on the fuel/air as that is where most of the troubles are to be found.
Here is a list of possible problems:
1. Linkage out of adjustment; butterfly, injection pump not in synch, stalling poor performance no high end
2. Linkage adjusted, but not to correct angles; no low or high RPM
3. rich adjustment incorrect; foulling plugs, stalling, poor performance
4. injection nozzles clogged or defective; no power, stalling
5. defective injection pump; intermittant high-low rpm, stalling, no power
6. Timing out of synch; jumped chain, incorrect valve adjustment, loose chain; stalling, poor performance
7. Fuel/air mixture not correct; stalling, no power
8. dwell incorrect/defective point/condesor; hesitaton, no power, stalling, wont start
9. worn or defective spark plug/wires; engine misses, stalls hesitates
10. incorrect distributor timing; car stalls, hesitates, no power.

Just about any of these can cause the car to idle ok but stall when put in gear or under acceleration and they are the things that change or wear over time.
The primary sources would be 10, 7, 3 and 4 in that order.

As for the lifting magnet, I would somewhat agree that that could be a source, but generally on a well adjusted car, a faulty or mis-aligned solenoid, is only going to cause the RPM to drop to 4-500 and cause the car to hesitate on take-off.
I have actually run mine without the lifting magnet and adjusted idle RPM up. If the RPM is just under 1000, thats pretty high to be stalling. It sounds like the compressions don't have any bang for the buck. One way to prove it is take the idle up to 1200 and see what happens.
If fuel mileage is within spec along with performance then I would go after the solenoid, but if performance or fuel mileage is not correct then the problem lies elsewhere
Leonard
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2006, 11:50 AM
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<< we are assuming that the w111 is a 250 se,>>

Not assuming it is a 250se .. He states in his posting it is...

.. and first check is still CSS..
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  #6  
Old 04-02-2006, 12:09 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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although

you are prob right about it, technically he didnt state it is the car in his signature that he is referring to.

it sounds like it could be too lean to me. a vac leak would be high on my list of probable causes.

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #7  
Old 04-02-2006, 12:42 PM
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His complaint states no running faults except rpms drop when engagement of trans.. and the first part of the system under such a complaint is to see if the rpm CSS lifting sol/dashpot [ whichever he has] is working. That is it's only funtion and it takes exactly 2 secs to see if it is engaging.
Could be many things , but if that part does not work, it will give you his complaint.. it is that simple ..........that's all.
Not checking that before setting a/f mix is just bad diagnosis..
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  #8  
Old 04-02-2006, 01:21 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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you're

way over my head here.

tom w
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #9  
Old 04-02-2006, 09:29 PM
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Arthur you are right; it is a simple check, but the lifting magnet (that is its correct name and not CSS) generally does not cause the car to stall. Another simple check is to turn the A/C off, thats of course if it has A/C, does it have A/C?
At this point, you and I are appearing as jerks, which is ok as I readily agree I do tend to be a bit of jerk
...all the best
Leonard
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  #10  
Old 04-02-2006, 09:49 PM
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Tom
I tend to agree with you. Pulling a spark plug gives you real time data on how the engine is performing. Arthur has good points, but I always zero in on moving or wear parts first, hince my perference for timing/point problems. Arthur has some good points and its worth a check, but generally thats not a wear location, unless the lifting magnet fails. Personally, I have never gone to the lifting magnet first.
I currently have a W111 220 SE coupe, the lifting magnet operates in reverse, at cold start it dis-engages and warm-up it engages, this results in low idle at the first 10 miles and an F1 qualifying lap the next 90 miles. The solution was to pull one of the wires and not use it. Car operates great at start-up and requires a little more 'babying' the first few miles, however even without the lifting magnet in operation, the car does not stall. It appears that some mechanic somewhere done the line crossed a wire some where. Seeing how wiring schemetics are rare for this car I just ran it unconnected. Car goes to a shop next week to get sorted out as I finally found a qualified mechanic, I hope.
Leonard
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  #11  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leenart
Arthur you are right; it is a simple check, but the lifting magnet (that is its correct name and not CSS) generally does not cause the car to stall. Another simple check is to turn the A/C off, thats of course if it has A/C, does it have A/C?
At this point, you and I are appearing as jerks, which is ok as I readily agree I do tend to be a bit of jerk
...all the best
Leonard
250se, 129 engine uses a CCS { Constant Speed Solinoid.} system.
Benz Factory Service Manual. Read it sometime............
Your chassis uses a Lifting magnet.

...and his car is not stalling.. he states it attemps to stall..which is a first sign of a bad or improperly adjusted CCS .
Excuse my priority diagnostics procedures , but this is the way we have been doing diagnostics for 40 years now .
We check the fuse before we change the wiper motor.. just like we check the CSS before we get into air/fuel mixture adjusting on Bosch MFI.
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  #12  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:37 PM
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Arthur
Personally there was too little info to go either way. If the car performed well and got good mileage, but stalled at engagement, then yes I would look at the lifting magnet (its the same on 220 to 280SE, trust me I owned them all). If the car stalled and mileage and performance was subpar then I would look elsewhere) For me, performance is determined by taking the car to maximum speed and confirming this to the book specs. If MPH on the 220 SE was 95mph and the car stalled I would zero in on the lifting magnet; if MPH was 95 on the 280SE I would look at dwell/timing/spark issues, simple as that.
No one said anything about adjusting anything, my only committment was to check the spark plug condition
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  #13  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:40 PM
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Opposum
If at any time you care to jump in to this feel free to join us since I guess this is why we are having this discussion
Opposum, care to add any more info to narrow down our thoughts on how to fix our..er..your car
Leonard
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  #14  
Old 04-03-2006, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leenart
Opposum
If at any time you care to jump in to this feel free to join us since I guess this is why we are having this discussion
Opposum, care to add any more info to narrow down our thoughts on how to fix our..er..your car
Leonard
Wow! you guys got down to business on this post...unfortunately I had to get down to business at my place of business this weekend . I'm ready to pull the plugs and check the condition of them. That is always a good place to start. The performance seems to be fine plenty of get up and go in low and high rpms. Maybe it has some hidden horses in there I never knew about but I think it is fine. The distributor was rebuilt and the injection pump timed by a real 111 pro only 1000 miles ago or so. I am thankful to have someone I can trust but he ain't cheap. Milage seems to be around 17 around town. Is that proper for the 250se? No AC in mine. Regarding the css, In reverse it kicks in great but it has never done it in forward. I'd like to find out what my top speed is but my speedos off. It's a euro car but someone put in the mph version at some point and I guess didnt do it right. So lets see if I got this one straight, the lifting magnet is like the solenoid for the CSS? Where is that exactly? Will I need special tools to adjust it? If this is covered in the shop manual, great....I just cant seem to locate it right now I know it is here somewhere. Oh, one last thing about the stalling. It is only when it is less than totally warmed up (which is like never given the short drives i take..15 miles at a time with 35 friggin stop lights) when I come to a stop so I usually just knock it into N or avoid coming to a complete stop.

Thanks for all your work on this for me guys. I appreciate it.
Opossum
__________________
German autos!!!
'67 250se coupe
'89 190e 2.6
'05 BMW x5
'59 0319 diesel Omnibus.
Italian bikes!!!
'64 Lambretta Special 185 hot rod scooter
'66 Lambretta SX200
'59 Lambretta 250 race bike
'70 Lambretta GP200
'77 860gt ducati
'66 ducati monza

Last edited by opossum; 04-03-2006 at 11:55 AM.
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  #15  
Old 04-04-2006, 06:28 PM
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Ok guys I found my manual but I can't find anything in it regarding the css. In the transmission section there is talk of something like it but doesnt say much that I can find. If anyone knows where to locate some info I'd appreciate it.
thanks again.
opossum

__________________
German autos!!!
'67 250se coupe
'89 190e 2.6
'05 BMW x5
'59 0319 diesel Omnibus.
Italian bikes!!!
'64 Lambretta Special 185 hot rod scooter
'66 Lambretta SX200
'59 Lambretta 250 race bike
'70 Lambretta GP200
'77 860gt ducati
'66 ducati monza
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