W111 Mystery U-joint and other fun! - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MercyBenz63 · #1 05-02-2006, 03:02 PM

Hey all, thanks in advance for your help.

I have a Euro w111 220SEb coupe of the '63 vintage. A good daily driver whose driveline is needing some attention.

I ordered the correct part number u-joint for the rear driveshaft from Rusty. The part that came (a GKN replacement) is too small to fit. After returning the part to Rusty I have ordered a new one (same part number) from the dealer...$135. While I wait the ten days for the part to arrive from germany I am having the sickening feeling that the new one will not fit either.

The old joint is similar to the replacement I got, however, the cup size is of a larger diameter and there is a hole through the center. Has anyone else had this problem? Does anyone know an expert in the field?

Also, while poking around in the rear end I discovered a dying right rear wheel bearing. Does anyone know if special tools are required for replacement, I have a press? Also, I think once you unbolt all the claptrappery behind the brakes the axle shaft just slides out, can anyone confirm this?

Thanks again,

Kyle

Karsten · #2 05-02-2006, 03:49 PM

Kyle,

I can't say anything about your U-joint problem. Maybe if you had some pictures comparing the two it would be possible to tell the problem.

About the rear wheel bearings, you will need a puller with quite long arms. I just made one from a cheap puller and extended the arms by welding in some steel. It works fine. The axle shafts may not be equally long so if you want to make a puller which will fit both sides, bare this in mind.

It would probably be a good idea to do both sides while you are at it and change the seals as well.

However the right side may (or should be) a spherical roller bearing. It will have some axial play in it, this is not a defect!

Karsten

MercyBenz63 · #3 05-03-2006, 01:58 PM

Karsten,

Thanks for the advice. One question.

Is the puller for pulling the bearing off the axle or is it for pulling the axle out of the housing?

Thanks

Karsten · #4 05-03-2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MercyBenz63

Karsten,

Thanks for the advice. One question.

Is the puller for pulling the bearing off the axle or is it for pulling the axle out of the housing?

Thanks

The puller is to pull the bearings off the shafts. So far it has not been a problem for me to pull the axles out of the housing. MB did make a special puller to do it though.

Beware that the correct spherical bearing for the right side is expensive, around 100 USD.

Karsten

MercyBenz63 · #5 05-04-2006, 02:24 PM

Karsten,

I know they are expensive but you specifically mention the right side. Are the right and left side bearings different?

Also, here are some pics of the ujoint...
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/mercybenz63/SEbUjoint001.jpg

http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/mercybenz63/SEbUjoint003.jpg
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h34/mercybenz63/SEbUjoint005.jpg

The problem is that the diameter of the cups on the correct ujoint is larger than the diameter on the one delivered.

Has anyone one else run into this? Also, I have never seen a ujoint with a hole through the middle. Any comments?

Tony H · #6 05-04-2006, 03:33 PM

Hi,
I had the driveshaft from my 3.5 111 coupe rebuilt at Driveline service of Portland. They are a premere rebuilder of German driveshafts. They replaced the U joints (3) and center bearings (2) and spin balanced it. Their u joints are greasable unlike the original sealed joints. If you replace your own u joints you may end up with drive shaft vibration unless you have your driveshaft balanced after you replace the u joints.

Karsten · #7 05-05-2006, 04:12 AM

The left side is using a ball bearing, so yes the bearings are different.

If you have split the propellar shaft in two without marking the position of the two halves in relation to each other, you will need to have the shaft reballanced to avoid annoying vibrations.

About the ujoint. The best thing will be to give the measures to your parts supplier so you get the right version.

Karsten

MercyBenz63 · #8 05-05-2006, 08:22 PM

I did in fact mark the alignment of the driveshaft from the transmission to the diff. Hopefully the balance will be OK when I put it all back together.

Update: I got the part from Mercedes and...it doesn't fit. SO I'm stumped, I think I will have to try to fing the ujoint by it's measurements.

I'm still hoping that someone else has seen this problem and happens to know the correct part number. Barring that, does anyone have a suggestion of a ujoint supplier that sells them by dimension instead of application?

Thanks.

vox_incognita · #9 05-06-2006, 03:56 PM

Hi,check the EPC,you`d better use the VIN:
http://detali.ru/cat/oem_mb.asp
As you see,there are more than 1 size of the U-joint :

http://detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=111014&M=127%2E982&CT=F&cat=234&SID=35&SGR=001&SGN=01

It`s N-r 322 I believe,and there are notes:
.014 FROM REAR AXLE 100942
.021,023 FROM REAR AXLE 012683

Good luck!
P.S. for the wheel bearing replacement:
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=121940
Good luck!
Ooops...driveshaft=propshaft..sorry,should`ve read more carefully...

Karsten · #10 05-06-2006, 06:48 PM

The correct ujoint must be this? http://detali.ru/cat/oem_mb2.asp?TP=1&F=111014&M=127%2E982&CT=F&cat=234&SID=41&SGR=001&SGN=01

Karsten

tram · #11 05-06-2006, 07:50 PM

Call Manfred at the Oldtimer Division (MB) 1.866.622.5277. Give him the chassis number and explain to him the problem you are having. He will give you a part number that you can order from your dealer or possibly have GKN or someone else cross reference. I've run into this issue before as well. It seems to be predominately on pre 1964 models for some reason. Manfred and the Oldtimer Division are a fantastic resource for those impossible to find M-B bits.

MercyBenz63 · #12 05-07-2006, 03:28 PM

Guys,

Thanks for the great information, especially that website!!!!

Karsten, the ujoint you looked up is exactly the ujoint I have ordered twice now.

I made some measurements and heres the difference....

Dimension -- My Ujoint -- P/N 1114100031
Width joint -- 76mm -- 70mm
Dia Cup -- 28mm -- 26mm
End to snap ring -- 11mm -- 11mm

I guess I'll be chatting up Manfred tomorrow. In the mean time I'm looking for a supplier that lists the ujoint dimension.

Have a great weekend everybody.

Anthony Cerami · #13 05-08-2006, 09:07 AM

Kyle...
I may have one in stock.....Let me check tonight...
Also a good tip that "vox" had....always use the vin number.
More importantly make sure your car matches the data card. Contact MB Classics.
My 67 w111 was really a 1965 with a 1972 engine a 68 cylinder head and rear axle that did not match and a home made driveshaft. .....hence a collection of u-joints...
The car was a junk yard dog!!!

tram · #14 05-08-2006, 01:33 PM

Make SURE you use the chassis number actually stamped into the body! I've seen lots of cars with the wrong metal data plate stuck on it!

MercyBenz63 · #15 05-13-2006, 04:25 PM

Aaaarrrgggghhhh!

I have become completely frustrated with this problem!

I have found many websites listing u-joints by dimension, however, I have not yet found mine. The diameter of the cup is 28 mm, the length between the snap ring seats is 52 mm.

I even spent an hour at my local import parts supplier trying to match the part out of his inventory and still no luck.

I have been unable to locate a chassis number anywhere on this car other than the tag, which is held on by screws, not the original rivets. I feel this car is definitely a hienz 57.

I did find a part number on the driveshaft flange - 111 410 0230.

This car is certainly an early 220SEb, w111.021, engine 127.

Well, thanks for letting me rant. If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.