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  #1  
Old 05-26-2006, 12:57 AM
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Your Petronix install advice for this weekend

M130, 1971 280SE.

I realize this subject has been very well written on but I have one question. With the Petronix ignition AND their Flame Thrower 40,000 V 3 Ohm coil as a complete package, am I hooking this straight up as described in the instructions and bypassing ALL the MB switchgear and resistors? Just red wire here and black wire there, distributor to coil and done? Then set timing of course and open up the plug gap from what you guys have said.

Gonna give it a go this weekend.

Many thanks for the help, I'm very rusty.

__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx
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  #2  
Old 05-26-2006, 09:13 AM
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Yep, that's about the size of it. Did mine a few weeks ago and apart from having to make the wires longer and take the distributor off to get the timing in the right place it was very straight forward. As advised elsewhere I put the old points in the glove box and left the original wiring taped up but in place in case it ever fails. If its a first generation pertronix unit dont leave the ignition on too long without the engine running.
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2006, 11:07 AM
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I'm trying to think but nothing happens

Ok, I'm officially flummoxed over this Petronix install on my 1971 280SE M130.

As Curly from the 3 Stooges used to say:" I'm trying to think but nothing happens"

I have the Flamethrower Coil AND the Ignitor kit. Kit is installed in the distributor, gapped 030 and ready to button up, rotor, cap, done.

My understanding is I need to bypass all the MB switchgear and ballast resistors with the new coil, which has internal resistance I guess. All the old wiring can then be left intact for another day.

Black wire from the Ignitor is on the (-) terminal on the new coil. Where does the red go (+?) and where to I pick up the ignition wire from the key to send low voltage to the coil via the battery? Does something come off the terminal block down by the switchgear boxes next to the radiator, driver’s side or from the last ballast resistor before the old coil? Do I need to run a jumper down there? Also I assume I no longer need the chassis ground that was on the - side of the Bosch coil.

Please help relieve me of this severe brain cramp.

S
__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx
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  #4  
Old 06-24-2006, 11:46 AM
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The red wire goes to the + terminal on the coil along with +12V switched from the iginition switch that you pick up off the old switchgear wiring. Use a testlight or meter to find which wire gives you +12V when you turn the ignition on and that's the one you run up to the + terminal on the coil. Make sure you get +12V before the ballast resistor (if you leave it in place) and not the reduced voltage coming out of the other side of the resistor (that goes to the old switchgear IIRC).
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Last edited by nhdoc; 06-24-2006 at 12:11 PM.
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2006, 12:55 PM
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< >>

True....
Many guys put a cabin switch in series with the Blk wire from the coil to the Pert module [ this is the switched ground side ] . This allows one to turn the ignition off when working on the car [ compression test, fuel pressure testing, etc,] without the fear of overheating the Pert modules load side, while at the same time has the advantage of a hidden ignition kill sw. for theft.
Two birds/one stone..
I have also used an 8 A fuse on that same line on some commercial equiment that we use Perts on , as the Perts commonly fry with the engine off and ignition feed still On, which seems to happen more on equipment.
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  #6  
Old 06-24-2006, 05:09 PM
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Guys,

Can't thank you enough for the help. I knew I needed 12V to the primary side of the coil, just wasn't sure where to pick it up from. You made it crystal clear and lifted the brain fog.

Picked up some primary wire and a toggle switch as well today.

Hope to be idling smoothly later this evening after setting the timing. If it ever stops raining here in New England, I might even go for a spin.

S
__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2006, 05:13 PM
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Good luck and happy motoring...whereabouts in NE are you?

My understanding of the trouble with the Ignitor module being left "on" without the engine running is that it is only a problem if the module happens to be stopped in the "points closed" position, but most of the time that would not be the case, so most of the time you could even get away with leaving the ignition on without worry...but the switch is a good idea nonetheless.
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2013 Lincoln MKz
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  #8  
Old 06-24-2006, 05:45 PM
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The possibility of the cam magnet being opposite the module is actually very good.. Count the cyl fires for each dist rev.
Which is exactly why Pert had to modify the Ignitor 2 circuitry to include thermal protection.
Ignitor 1 problems are not uncommon at all.
I just changed one last week that had 10 hours on it..machine ran out of gas and they did not think to kill the ig. sw.
Fried it.
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  #9  
Old 06-24-2006, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur Dalton
The possibility of the cam magnet being opposite the module is actually very good.. Count the cyl fires for each dist rev.
Which is exactly why Pert had to modify the Ignitor 2 circuitry to include thermal protection.
Ignitor 1 problems are not uncommon at all.
I just changed one last week that had 10 hours on it..machine ran out of gas and they did not think to kill the ig. sw.
Fried it.

Good to know...learn something new each day. Thanks for the tips.
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2013 Lincoln MKz
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  #10  
Old 06-24-2006, 08:01 PM
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Ok, all hooked up. Cranking mightily but no start.

Ran a new wire from the key energized lug on the terminal block before the switchgear. Confirmed it's hot with key on with test light, confirmed I built a good lead (14GA Primary wire) with test light. Connected to (+) on the coil, along with the ignitor red lead. Black ignitor lead is on the (-) side of the coil


Did the low voltage test recommended in the Petronix instructions (Disco red lead from coil, connect red lead to batt via jumper and start). No joy so seems voltage (12V) is not the issue.
Opened up the distributor, checked magnet ring was seated, rotor seated, re-checked air gap of 030. Cap secure and seated. Coil wire seated. All is well there.

Question: Does the (-) side of the Flamethrower need to be grounded? The Bosch coil had that side (-) going to a chassis ground on the fender wall. Seems like I don't have a circuit, no spark.

What am I missing?

Stumped in Rhode Island and trying not to burn down the garage!
__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx
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  #11  
Old 06-24-2006, 08:43 PM
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As you have a 12v test lamp, do this simple test and report finding.

Key Off
Take cap off dist.
Hook one test lamp lead to Pos on battery and other test lead to the plate that the pert module is mounted to in the dist.
Does lamp light?
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  #12  
Old 06-24-2006, 09:46 PM
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Arthur,

Will do your proceedure in the AM. Buttoned up for the night.

After test light on everything, I did further confirm via voltmeter that I am sending a solid 12V to the coil (+) side with the key on.

How my chest swells with pride when I ever take a perfectly fine running automobile and disable it, publicly.
__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx
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  #13  
Old 06-24-2006, 10:51 PM
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Couldn't stand the suspense.

Test lamp lights.

S
__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx
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  #14  
Old 06-24-2006, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shab
Couldn't stand the suspense.

Test lamp lights.

S
OK

That test was to verify we have a good ground at the distributor, We want to establish that first b/c an open ground results in the same No Spark condition as a No 12v + would... need ground for Pert to complete the coils circuit.

Next test is to see if you have 12v+ at coil when key is turned to the START position...we know you have power at Run position, so now check Start position and report finding.

Note *
I am assuming you have a No Spark condition and your problem is not gas,etc. related .. have you , in fact, checked for spark at a plug or primary wire??????????
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2006, 11:39 PM
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Arthur,

I too am assuming no spark as the car has (had) no issues, runs like a top on the points as of Thursday night when I had it out for a 90 minute spin. Had a little backfiring on deceleration but other than that no problems at all. Starts at the turn of the key hot, stone cold and everything in between. Pump is running etc.

I'll check for 12V at start. I was thinking the same thing. Key on 12V, start nada volt.

I was planning to check to see if the coil is putting out from the secondary, which I suspect it is not.

As part of the trouble shooting process, I was also planning to revert to the original Bosch coil, original 12V ballasted supply to it and have a go to see if the Flamethrower is suspect.

I am also recalling this would not be the first weekend wasted on brand new parts that were NFG.

__________________
Present
1971 280SE W108

1967 250SE W111
Rhode Island
_____________
Auf Wiedersehen
1972 280SE 4.5 (AKA Das Moneypitten)
1972 250C (Mit den zwei carburetors from hell)

"Time fly’s like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana" Groucho Marx

Last edited by Shab; 06-24-2006 at 11:47 PM.
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