4 speed on the floor vs column shift - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

woodrat · #1 06-05-2006, 05:19 PM

I recently acquired two MB "heckflossen", one is a 1962 190D with a newer 200D engine, and a column shifted four speed. It's reasonably straight, with lots of light surface rust here and there, but not too terrible. It needs work to get running, I think it's glow plugs are shot. The other one is a 200 D of unknown vintage, since it came with no title from a mechanic who had it abandoned at his shop 10 years ago. It has no motor, but a pretty clean dash and somewhat decent interior (with the nice adjustable seats and door pockets). It also has power disc brakes and a four on the floor. It's terribly rusty though, especially in the dirver's side sill and floorboards and has thick, cracking bondo on the right doors.

What I want to do is put the power disc brakes on the 190D, which so far looks pretty do-able. What I'm less sure about is making the 190D into a floor shifted 4 speed. Are the trannies the same, with different linkage, or is it a whole different creature? I really am not a fan of column shifted manual transmissions, having owned them on ramblers, and chevy and ford trucks. The shifter on the 190D was sitting in the passenger seat when I bought it, and I just shoved it back into it's socket. I don't want to be doing that in rush hour traffic in Seattle sometime, or out in the sticks somewhere either.

I'm not trying to make a show car or do a restoration, I just want a solid, reliable and safe driver that is comfortable and looks presentable. Does anyone have any information on swapping these transmissions (or linkage)?

Thanks

Mark

mercmad6.3 · #2 06-05-2006, 06:28 PM

Transmissions are the same,the tunnel is of course slightly different,Swap over the entire front crossmember to adapt the discs,that way you will change the two mount bushes which I'll bet are shot by now.Don't forget to fit the disc brake booster and master cylinder.The linkage is a real bear to set up ,there three basic settings and specs for the linkage( 3 actual different linkage types) but the best bet is to ensure there NO play in anything.

woodrat · #3 06-05-2006, 06:57 PM

is the tunnel larger, or does it just have a hole in it? I'm having a hard time telling.

The master cylinder and booster thing looks more problematic than I originally though, especially with the different clutch master.. I will have to move the battery box, and make a new mounting set up for the booster as it is different than the manual brakes.

Part of me wonders if I would be better off just leaving the 190 stock and getting it going and selling it, but I haven't been able to find new rubber parts for all the brake and clutch cylinders. Then i would still need to find a 200 D 4 speed that I could afford. I have only $550 into the two of these.

Thanks,

Mark

t walgamuth · #4 06-05-2006, 07:41 PM

i would scrutinize the tranny to be sure they are the same. then should be a bolt in swap to the floor shifter. i bet there is a plate with four screws or so that you can remove and bolt on the base of the floor shifter. then just switch over the rods and such.

the column shifters work fairly well as long as all the bushings are in order. if it is sloppy there are bushing shot. they are very firm when all is working as designed.

i drove a 62 190c about 80k from 74 to 77. column shifter. cheapest car i ever operated.

good luck

tom w

woodrat · #5 06-05-2006, 09:31 PM

Any ideas where to get the rebuild kits for the brake and clutch cylinders?

Mark DiSilvestro · #6 06-05-2006, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodrat

Any ideas where to get the rebuild kits for the brake and clutch cylinders?

Probably should try to get the 190D running first before getting in too deep on the other stuff.

I believe the cups for the wheel cylinders are SAE sizes, so you may be able to find some from an American car or truck that will work, as long as your cylinder bores are OK.
But first -
Have you tried MercedesShop/Faslane on this Forum? Call up and ask Phil, as the web-page doesn't list a lot for the Fintails.

A properly sorted-out Fintail column-shift is a pleasure to use, compared to the ones on those Ford or Chevy trucks. As for trying to swap, I'm thinking the trannies are probably different - sidecover for column-shift vs topcover for floor-shift, and possibly the tunnels too.

Happy Motoring, Mark

mercmad6.3 · #7 06-05-2006, 11:36 PM

Mercedes Never made a side shift trans for anything,thats Ford or GM. The Floor and Column shift both use the same trans,the controls are on the top and the rear of the trans.The finny trans is interchangeble with the 190SL through to the W114 230.There will Not be a panel on the floor,the column and floor change trans had different tunnels,the main difference being the hole( obviously) and the slightly raised pressing for the shifter seals to screw on to.
As for your wheel cylinders look in Hemmings for firms that reconditon them.they push a stainless sleeve into the bore and fix it permanently.
The main advantage of the column shift was that you could fit three people in the front seat.

Mark DiSilvestro · #8 06-06-2006, 09:20 AM

I should have said 'side-lever'. Yes, both '60s trannies have a top-cover, but the tranny used with the column-shifts has 2 shift levers that come out from the top-cover to the side, whereas the SL and some of the floorshift '60s sedans use a single shift-rod coming out the back of the top-cover that required a higher tunnel for clearance. Manual trannies used later on the W114 and W115 cars do actually have a side-cover sporting three shift levers.

Happy Motoring, Mark