What was the first year air conditioning on M-Bs - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ruet66 · #1 01-10-2008, 11:02 AM

I would like to find a vintage Mercedes-Benz with manual transmission, diesel engine and air conditioning, but I'm not sure how to begin my search. I have tried searching Google and this forum, but I cannot find what I am looking for. If anyone here could point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated.

What was the first year Mercedes-Benz offered air conditioning on a diesel powered manual transmission vehicle?

What are the chassis numbers and body or model number?

nhdoc · #2 01-10-2008, 11:08 AM

The early models all had aftermarket A/C installed as an option, usually a Koolmeister or Behr unit which hung under the dash. The problem is that the early diesels were so underpowered that draining more HP to drive an A/C compressor would make the cars so slow to be a hazard on the road.

I'd say the W110 chasis 190/200D of the mid to late 60's would be ones you could look out for, but like I said, they are slow enough without A/C. I'd probably say look for a W115 220D with a stick and A/C as a reasonable compromise. Those started around 1970 IIRC. You could step up to the 240D which started in 1974 as a real race car compared to those too. It could do 0-60 in about 15-20 seconds with a manual tranny without A/C, probably closer to 30 with it.

ruet66 · #3 01-10-2008, 11:32 AM

Thanks Marty. That is just the information I was looking for. So really it sounds like the 240D is the best choice.

Tony

junqueyardjim · #4 01-10-2008, 11:35 AM

I had one of those gems way back in the mid 70's, and I thought it was great. Factory air, though as I recall the vents were in the console. Gray with dark brown interior, Gorrilla knob and a four speed. And I think I bought it in 1974 for just under $2000.00. One should never sell something nice like that.

Kpmurphy · #5 01-10-2008, 12:21 PM

My 1970 220D 115 did have A/C, but i think it was put in after it was delivered to the US.
Is this something Mercedes did at the dealer after it was delivered?

ruet66 · #6 01-10-2008, 02:52 PM

Kpmurhpy, please see the first response to this thread by nhdoc. The early ones are aftermarket and added under the dash after the car was shipped.

300SDog · #7 01-11-2008, 03:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kpmurphy

My 1970 220D 115 did have A/C, but i think it was put in after it was delivered to the US.
Is this something Mercedes did at the dealer after it was delivered?

Valuable intelligence, learn somethng new everyday. I've never seen 114/115 with add-on aftermarket styled AC. Was it the famous "KuhlMeister" unit of haeckflosse/fintail fame?

Othewise i was thinkin probly w114/115's circa 1970-72 had the first actual built-in unit sharing ducts with heating system. Pinning down the actual year would be difficult. And if actually later say 1972/73, the R107 is liklier candidate for first shared-duct system factory AC - though knowing MB and 114/115 legend and lore they probly had the internal factory setup in them first. Lots of firsts for 114/115's including first ball-joint suspension, first "hemi-styled" MB twincam engine and possibly the first electronic ignition being the excellent lazer beam/ forked octopus rotor system of early days.

JimFreeh · #8 01-11-2008, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

The early models all had aftermarket A/C installed as an option, usually a Koolmeister or Behr unit which hung under the dash. The problem is that the early diesels were so underpowered that draining more HP to drive an A/C compressor would make the cars so slow to be a hazard on the road.

I'd say the W110 chasis 190/200D of the mid to late 60's would be ones you could look out for, but like I said, they are slow enough without A/C. I'd probably say look for a W115 220D with a stick and A/C as a reasonable compromise. Those started around 1970 IIRC. You could step up to the 240D which started in 1974 as a real race car compared to those too. It could do 0-60 in about 15-20 seconds with a manual tranny without A/C, probably closer to 30 with it.

The W114/W115 series, 1968-1976, all had "aftermarket" A/C. Installation was done at port of entry, and used a massive flame cut bracket, York compressor, and many SAE fittings in the installation.

220Ds with A/C are marginal performers when A/C is on, and are absolute stones when you add an automatic tranny to the A/C...

I drove 220Ds for years (2 sticks, 1 auto), and cannot imagine how one could reasonably use a 190D/200D W110 finback in today's traffic if it had an automatic w/air.

240Ds have a "bit" more power, but are also saddled with those mucho fugly bumpers, and lose the front vent windows.

Late W123 240Ds (1980+) are much better than the W115 diesels, and are still viable to use today.

W123 300D turbos (1982+), are perhaps the best of the bunch.

W124 diesels are noticably quicker, but also more fragile, and in my experience considerably more expensive to maintain.

It boils down to a personal appeal, what you can find available, and how much you want to pay.

The W115s have much charm, but rust badly. The W123 is a workhorse, rusts, but not as badly, looks much newer than it is. The W124 is higher maintenance, but offers more options and has a fantastic chassis. My wife still misses her 87 300TD she drove for 13 years, it's her favorite MB out of all of them.

Jim

mbdoc · #9 01-11-2008, 08:07 AM

The 1st MB with A/C standard was the 600.

A 1968 W108/109 chassis could be had with Factory installed A/C in 1968.
Some of the W114/115 chassis in 1970 could be ordered with Factory air.
The LAST dealer installed a/c units from MB were for the "lever" style W115's in 1972.
MB dropped the kits when the vacuum controlled system came out.

75Sv1 · #10 01-11-2008, 01:01 PM

The York and GM compressors MB used took somewhere around 10-15hp to run them. Newer compressors take about 3 hp to run them, or so I am told. There is a guy in Texas who makes kits for newer components. They are about $1800 for the complete kit.
Tom

nhdoc · #11 01-11-2008, 03:35 PM

Our '74 240D had factory air and I just drove a 1970 220D which also had factory air. I believe the W115 would be the first diesel chassis which you could order with factory air.

todds · #12 01-11-2008, 03:48 PM

Was there really all that great a difference from the fintail diesels through the 240d? There might have been a slight hp increase but they also weighed something like 200 to 300 lbs more as well didn't they? I think an automatic and A/C on any year would be pushing the limit. I had a D with a manual and A/C, it was fine. Additionally, the fintails have a different tranny which might make A/C strain less noticable (the first gear is a stump puller if you use it)

Mark DiSilvestro · #13 01-11-2008, 09:06 PM

My reference 'Mercedes-Benz Cars 1957-1961', published by Brookands Books, has a reprint article from the April 1959 issue British car magazine 'The Motor', concerning the newly optional power-steering and air-conditioning units availible for the Adenauer series 300D.
The AC blower/evaporator unit was in the trunk, mounted under the rear shelf, like many early AC units in '50s American cars. No details as to make of unit or if it was factory or dealer-installed.

By the late '50s, hang-on AC units were availible for most American cars and some imports, so sometimes even Mercedes Pontons turn up on eBay with AC units.
In 1983, I installed a modified Fintail 'Kuhlmeister' AC unit in my '61 Ponton 180b.

Throughout the '60s, the Fintails were 'officially' availble with a 'Kuhlmeister' hang-on under-dash AC, actually made in Texas by Thermo-King and most often dealer-installed.

I'm not familiar with the AC system used in the 600s, but AC as standard equipment makes sense for those cars.

I believe most W108s used a Behr underdash AC system, similar to the 'Kuhlmeister, but with the AC blower motor installed through the right front kick-panel.

The W114/115 cars were the first Mercedes availible with a semi-integrated Behr in-dash heat/AC unit, sharing the fresh-air dash-vents. The system was also modular. Cars without AC had a blank-off plate clipped to the heater's fresh-air box, or the AC blower/evaporator unit could be installed in the center console and connected to the heater's fresh-air box in place of the blank-off plate.
The early W114/114 AC systems used a mechanical lever to select fresh-air/heater blower, or recirculate/AC blower. Later W114/115 cars used a rotary thermosat control, with a vacuum operated change-over switch to go from fresh-air/heater to recirculate/AC operation.

In 1987, I acquired my first Mercedes with 'factory AC', a '72 gas 220. With an automatic and the AC going, climbing hills was ponderous. (Don't know what an automatic 220D with AC would be like) The following year, I replaced my 220 with a nearly identical '72 6-cylinder 250 sedan. Much smoother, more powerfull, and gas mileage was only about 1 mpg worse!

As for my '61 180b, the Ponton's peculiar cooling system plumbing and lack of space underhood, meant I couldn't use the 'Kuhlmeister' Fintail compressor and bracket, so I fabricated a setup to fit a Japanese Sankyo compressor. With the manual-shift, there was a noticeable, but tolerable power drain with the AC going, The major flaw in my installation was, without being able to improove the cooling system, the car would run very hot after about 15 - 20 minutes, but at least that was all the time it took to commute to and from my job in those days.

Happy Motoring, Mark

TheEngineer · #14 01-17-2008, 02:57 PM

I have a 1968 280SL with A/C. It is original, made by Frigiking and uses a York compressor. It was an option and could be installed after the car was delivered. I have the installation manual. It has two condensors, one, in front of the radiator, the other under the front bumper. With a 3-row radiator, it works fine, but with the stock 2-row the engine will overheat. It's a simple unit and used R-12

Lycoming-8 · #15 01-18-2008, 03:33 AM

Yep, Mark is correct, our 1968 220D W-115 had the integrated Heat & AC all in the dash. May have been added after car was imported, but had the look of a factory job. At one point the water pump needed to be replaced, so the beastly Yorkie compressor and its monstrous bracket had to go. Was never replaced, and although rather warm here in the summer I never really missed it. It was just such a pita to work around and really sucked the power even on our stick shift 220D.

By the way, the 1961 190Db did have the after-market Frigi-king setup, but it worked reasonably well and kept the car cool. Course we were not flying down the road at anything much beyond 62 or 63 mph either.