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  #31  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 300SDog View Post
Umm, "todays standards" caint touch the olden days when race circuit determined design and auto companies actually told the market what was best, fastest, most economical etc in every category. Question of auto industry discovering itself with marked independence back in the olden days.

Nowadays its like girly-show 'fashion designer' cars catering to consumer tastes, gov. regs and weird marketing interference. The 6.9 w116 is/was last ghasp of MB actually pushin the limit and asserting itself, as i'm sure we all oughta agree.
Ahh you mean like Saleen S7's, Ferrari's, Porsche's, and that extreme S2000 Honda makes, all offer turn key track cars.

Ferrari uses F1 as a develope all their street cars. Or how AMG and M use a alot of DTM racing to develope their cars, like the CLK.

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  #32  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:42 PM
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Any car company that doesn't cater to consumer tastes and government regulations is not going to be in business very long.

I also disagree with your "pushing the limit" comment. A W140 V12 or an E-class V8 Kompressor or the Mercedes Mclaren push the performance, comfort and style limit to a far greater degree than the 6.9 did in its day.

As the 6.9 was in the 1970's, all the above cars of examples of MB building the finest car it could conceive of at the respective time. I'm not sure if future offerings from Mercedes will continue to expand the performance envelope at the same rate - but I hope it does.
The 6.9 was hardly ground breaking, its like the S63/65 series of cars. Your standard S class with a trick suspension and a really killer engine.

The SLR certainly pushed the limits when it came out, and AMG continues to break them with there amazing engines.
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  #33  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
The 6.9 was hardly ground breaking, its like the S63/65 series of cars. Your standard S class with a trick suspension and a really killer engine.

The SLR certainly pushed the limits when it came out, and AMG continues to break them with there amazing engines.
I don't know, it had some pretty cool stuff that you could not find in an ordinary sedan of the era.

Hydraulic suspension (the French had it for ages but that was it)
Dry Sump - Racing application
ABS - I think it was the first car with it
Fuel injection

We need to remember that compared to every day cars, any MB was out of the ordinary and some features did not get adopted by other companies for years.

At college I drove a 1971 250CE for a few years. It has hard for my Ford and Vauxhall driving friends who had newish cars with no power steering, disk brakes all round, EFI and electric gizmos to accept that my 27 year old car did.

The cool thing about the 6.9 is that a lot of this stuff still works well even by today's standard. People tend to complain about the suspension but the reality is that those hydraulic shocks and spheres take ages to go bad and many of the 6.9's that are out there today still have the original suspension.
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  #34  
Old 03-19-2008, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
Ahh you mean like Saleen S7's, Ferrari's, Porsche's....... all offer turn key track cars.
Here's the rubb - glamour products, none of em affordable..... whereas Lotus Super 7 at $2400 cost less than Pontiac Tempest in it's day. Barely street legal, no doors, no windows - just bare bones raw turnkey track car, as you say. And yes, this cheapie kit car will knock socks off modern day porsches and ferraris even today.



Meanwhile automobile design has gone nowhere except downhill these past 30 yrs. More pure thought and better craftsmanship went into *any* pre-73 design such as VMB 114/115/116's than anything built since. Instaed we're now stuck with beacoup sloppy engineering weirdness driven by crazy consumer tastes - wherein yer typical new car buyer outright demands flash and glitter over substance.

MB 6.9 w116 represents last ghasp of old world greatness no holds barred. Reconnoitre Alabbasi with his collection drives from Dallas to anywhere at 120+ mph steering with his toes.


(edit: Hatty, from yer sig it says you're in CT. For kick in the ass check out Lime Rock Race Track - they used to offer use of the track to general public, even settin ye up with one of their track cars. It was $50 per hour back in late '70s when i was at school nearby and worth every penny.

Last edited by 300SDog; 03-19-2008 at 09:53 PM.
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  #35  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:24 PM
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You really don't like the new stuff do you? Have you seen the technoligy that goes into something like an SLR? Its amazing they use materials and process's that didn't exist in the 70's, well unless you worked for NASA. Even something pretty commen like an S600 has amazing technoligy that they could only dream about in the 70's. Its no different than the Gullwing was, well except the Gullwing was bolted together from whatever MB had sitting around because they were broke. But it took a long time for the technoligy to trickle down to cheap cars.

You like British cars? A Lotus Elise is an amazing piece! Its pretty much epoxy bonded aluminum and one of the best handling cars ever made by anyone. Those Lotus are fun old cars, building one as a good kit costs quite a bit today, like damn near $50k. Super Performance sells the 7 kits.

Again its not about speed, comparing different cars and saying one is better than the other because its faster is dumb. So what if the 7 is faster than some F cars? A lot of cars are. I don't care I rather own the Ferrari because they are amazing. So what if a rat trap 5.0 Mustang can take it in a race? And? I'd get more enjoyment out of a finaly crafted car that was built to perfection, like a fine watch, wine or gun.
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Last edited by Hatterasguy; 03-19-2008 at 11:46 PM.
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  #36  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by alabbasi View Post
I don't know, it had some pretty cool stuff that you could not find in an ordinary sedan of the era.

Hydraulic suspension (the French had it for ages but that was it)
Dry Sump - Racing application
ABS - I think it was the first car with it
Fuel injection

We need to remember that compared to every day cars, any MB was out of the ordinary and some features did not get adopted by other companies for years.

At college I drove a 1971 250CE for a few years. It has hard for my Ford and Vauxhall driving friends who had newish cars with no power steering, disk brakes all round, EFI and electric gizmos to accept that my 27 year old car did.

The cool thing about the 6.9 is that a lot of this stuff still works well even by today's standard. People tend to complain about the suspension but the reality is that those hydraulic shocks and spheres take ages to go bad and many of the 6.9's that are out there today still have the original suspension.
Typical of Mercedes and the S class. They say the S class is always 10 years ahead of normal cars, and MB is usualy a good 5 with everything else.
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  #37  
Old 03-20-2008, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
Have you seen the technoligy that goes into something like an SLR? Its amazing they use materials and process's that didn't exist in the 70's, well unless you worked for NASA. Even something pretty commen like an S600 has amazing technoligy that they could only dream about in the 70's. Its no different than the Gullwing was, well except the Gullwing was bolted together from whatever MB had sitting around because they were broke.
What yer sayin here makes absolutely no sense at all. How in the world can you compare the first fully independent suspension, disc brake equipped, fuel injected production car with whatever silly "NASA" electrictronic fiddly bits have gone into the S600?? Nevermind confusing the Porsche legacy (actually were built on spare parts) with MB that pioneered unique gullwing doors - Haint exactly the kinda parts y'all would find sittin around, eh?

Everything else in yer reply just supports what I been sayin about modern tastes infatuated with gloss and glitter as opposed to substance. Like why should anybody care what kinda paint goes onto the Lotus Elise.

Doncha get it, doncha see?? There have been very, very few appreciable improvements in auto design aside from troublesome over-engineering these past 30 yrs. True beauty of classic pre-79 VMB's is whats NOT included with the car... fewer crazy relays, oddball vacuum devices, nutty electricktronics and weird unwanted features. Probly the bulk of which is reason you call yer 1987 300SDL the "money pit".
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  #38  
Old 03-20-2008, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 300SDog View Post
Here's the rubb - glamour products, none of em affordable..... whereas Lotus Super 7 at $2400 cost less than Pontiac Tempest in it's day.
If you havnt seen the 600bhp/ton Ariel Atom, its the modern day Lotus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaWoo82zNUA
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  #39  
Old 03-20-2008, 10:01 AM
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Gary, if the dollar wasnt so weak right now y'all could get rich sneakin classic UK roadsters and ragtops like TR4A's, Alpines, Healey 3 litres and coupes like the TR-GT6, Stag V-8 and MG CGT into the USA. Nevermind Bristols, Aces and Cobras. What UK's done with sports cars = what MB's done with sedans, each the best of their kind. That Ariel Atom looks like hell on wheels.
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  #40  
Old 03-20-2008, 11:28 AM
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Yep, British Cars are a hoot to drive. It's a shame they weren't so well built. Sadly, it will almost always be more profitable to ship a British car from the US to the UK then otherwise. These cars rust like you wont believe in northern Europe.

The California climate is really good to them. Now if only we could have a German Moss motors or Victoria German which makes new chrome and trim bits for our older Mercedes, I would be a happy guy.
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  #41  
Old 03-20-2008, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by 300SDog View Post
What yer sayin here makes absolutely no sense at all. How in the world can you compare the first fully independent suspension, disc brake equipped, fuel injected production car with whatever silly "NASA" electrictronic fiddly bits have gone into the S600?? Nevermind confusing the Porsche legacy (actually were built on spare parts) with MB that pioneered unique gullwing doors - Haint exactly the kinda parts y'all would find sittin around, eh?

Everything else in yer reply just supports what I been sayin about modern tastes infatuated with gloss and glitter as opposed to substance. Like why should anybody care what kinda paint goes onto the Lotus Elise.

Doncha get it, doncha see?? There have been very, very few appreciable improvements in auto design aside from troublesome over-engineering these past 30 yrs. True beauty of classic pre-79 VMB's is whats NOT included with the car... fewer crazy relays, oddball vacuum devices, nutty electricktronics and weird unwanted features. Probly the bulk of which is reason you call yer 1987 300SDL the "money pit".

The Gullwing's engine, gear box, and suspension came out of a sedan, forget the model. MB was broke when they built that car, WW2 wasn't just a memory and they were probably still rebuilding their factories. It was revolutionary because it was the first real super car, and the chassie was extremely advanced and had those high beams running along the side. The doors were just a simple logical solution, that became an icon.

I wasn't talking about the paint on a Lotus, that statement alone tells me you really don't know much about the new stuff, no offense. Look into it a bit you might surprise your stuff with all the clever things they are doing. Like extruded aluminum parts that are bonded together with advanced expoxy to make a very light and stiff body. Or complete carbon fiber, or carbon carbon parts and bodies, super light. Materials that only NASA could play with a few years ago. Or magnesium engine blocks to reduce weight and improve handling.
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  #42  
Old 03-21-2008, 01:16 PM
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Magnesium alloy blocks have been found in the most diminutive of cars from 1938 to the 50's: The Beetle. It's nothing new per se, and I'm sure that if Volkswagen had it, then Mercedes could've used it as well on the m100 if it had made sense to at the time.

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