can someone fill me in on 6.9's ?

[spamman450]

so i have been a diesel mercedes man my whole life. lately for some reason i hear a lot of talk about mercedes with 6.9 engines in them. can someone fill me in on why they are so desired? i know nothing of them. I do know however, where at least two are sitting.

[Eddie Gilmartin]

In it's day (1975-1979) it was the fastest sedan in the world. Rock stars and racing drivers bought them. The body is the W116 S-Class which came out in 1973. The engine is the M100, previously fitted to the 600 (aka the Grand or Grosser) and then the 300SEL 6.3. You'll find everytrhing you need to know here:
http://www.m-100.cc/forum/default.asp?CAT_ID=1

[Eddie Gilmartin]

Here's one in action on youtube:
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=S4ZxN8MXjGU

Biggest problems are transmission and hydro-pneumatic suspension. Everything else is straightforward.

[JimFreeh]

Easy to buy, but hard to sell.

They all need some TLC....Tons of Loot and Cash!

Jim

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by JimFreeh

Easy to buy, but hard to sell. They all need some TLC....Tons of Loot and Cash!

Jim

Not really. If it's been neglected it will cost a lot to bring back. But so would any other other Mercedes. As long as the engine is sound and the suspension is good, the rest of the car is exactly like any other W116. If your paying a Mechanic $100 / hr, the costs will rack up because everything is tightly squeezed in there and will require more time to get to. It's not complicated though.

Why do I like them? Because they look like an old diesel but drive like a sports car.

[cth350]

I can't say that I like them or not yet. But for reasons not clearly explainable, I have wound up with seven of them and know where to find two more.

Yes, if it's been maintained, the 6.9s are fantastic cars that are worth the premium that they command. If you are a diy guy and don't mind going from an echomical diesel to a 9mpg gas guzzler, a 6.9 can be brought back to life.


Repairing the suspension requires sound engineering rules to diagnose what does and doesn't work and some care to make sure you don't drop the car on your arm (or your head) while you're working on it.

With luck, I can turn my seven sorry cars into four good ones.

-CTH

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by alabbasi

Why do I like them? Because they look like an old diesel but drive like a sports car.

They might look like an old diesel but I've got to say I don't think they drive anything like a sports car.....

I owned a 77 6.9 for a couple of years and it was a nice car, in 1977 it was certainly one of the highest performance 4 door sedans on the planet. By todays standards they are woeful underachievers - in acceleration and handling and the market reflects this in the prices.

With $3.50 per gallon gasoline I'd never consider owning another one, and I'm betting the 6.9 market will continue to decline.

[GaryF]

On this side of the pond the 6.3's are more desirable/rare, personally the performance difference between the 6.9 and 4.5 doesnt justify the extra cost and complexity.

[Lexxani]

its probably the only 116 i'd ever consider, mainly due to that 420c.i.d. engine. I dont care too much about fuel economy, as I dont drive my MB daily (though I wish I could). . .

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

They might look like an old diesel but I've got to say I don't think they drive anything like a sports car.....in acceleration and handling and the market reflects this in the prices.

I have three, a 76 Euro, a 79 US and a 79 Canada Spec car. The Euro feels like a dog and has no power. The US car is like a freight train, it doesn't feel quick at the lights but it feels unstoppable at 70mph. The Canada car is a tire smoker, fast as hell. My daily driver is a 97 32v V8 E420 and it's a quick car. The Canada spec car feels quicker.

I suspect that if your 6.9 felt under powered and handled badly, then like my 76, it was neglected by prior owners and is not a true representation of a properly sorted 6.9. If it was, it would drive great, handle great and be a huge blast to drive.

Of all the cars in my list, the 6.9 is the one I enjoy the most.

They are at bargain basement prices right now, but good ones are being snapped up and top dollar on ebay and usually shipped back to Europe.

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by alabbasi

I suspect that if your 6.9 felt under powered and handled badly, then like my 76, it was neglected by prior owners and is not a true representation of a properly sorted 6.9. If it was, it would drive great, handle great and be a huge blast to drive.

Of all the cars in my list, the 6.9 is the one I enjoy the most.

They are at bargain basement prices right now, but good ones are being snapped up and top dollar on ebay and usually shipped back to Europe.

Well OK.

I'd just like to point out the US spec 6.9 had 250 HP and carried its 4500 curb weight on 215/70 series 14 inch tires. The laws of physics would dictate that it couldn't be that great a performance car.

You realize that any garden variety W210 or W211 chassis V8 powered Benz could blow a 6.9 into the weeds on any given race track? Hell, I bet the six cylinder version of either chassis could beat it.

I agree 6.9's are at bargain basement prices - and I predict they values will stay soft forever.

[alabbasi]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

Well OK.

I'd just like to point out the US spec 6.9 had 250 HP and carried its 4500 curb weight on 215/70 series 14 inch tires. The laws of physics would dictate that it couldn't be that great a performance car.

It has considerably more torque though, the W210 that I am comparing it to is my W210 with a V8.

Out of the box, the W210's don't handle well, they ride well. I can only really say that about mine after I installed the heavy duty (yellow) shocks.

On the tire question, a W210 E250 with 113 hp has the same size tire as my 273 hp E420 (215/55/16).

[diametricalbenz]

Originally Posted by TimFreeh

I'd just like to point out the US spec 6.9 had 250 HP and carried its 4500 curb weight on 215/70 series 14 inch tires. The laws of physics would dictate that it couldn't be that great a performance car

Do you own one? I didn't see one in your sig?

I presume you don't because you'd be surprised how the car handles even on 215 tires. I found a set of 15" bundts and will put on 60 series rubber to cut out of some of the tire slop but it gets around just fine as it is.

It's not a Mini but you can't put 4 people and luggage and go 120mph in a Mini....

[TimFreeh]

Originally Posted by diametricalbenz

Do you own one? I didn't see one in your sig?

I presume you don't because you'd be surprised how the car handles even on 215 tires. I found a set of 15" bundts and will put on 60 series rubber to cut out of some of the tire slop but it gets around just fine as it is.

It's not a Mini but you can't put 4 people and luggage and go 120mph in a Mini....

See post #7.

I was surprised at how the car handled but not in a positive way. I think even the 6.9 fans would have to agree that the car is absurdly undertired given its weight, torque and performance potential. IIRC a 77 240D came from the factory with 195/70 14 inch tires and it weighed 1,000 pounds less than the 6.9. And the great 6.9 uses tires that are 20mm wider?

I'm glad you guys like your cars but IMHO the 6.9 was a great car in 1977 - by today's standards its pretty sub-standard.

I stand by what I said in my previous post - pretty much ANY W210 (except maybe a Diesel version) would outrun a 6.9 on a racetrack.

But now that I think about it my E300D will run 0-60's in around 8.3 seconds, IIRC the 6.9 takes about 8.0 seconds, and I'm betting the E300D could make up the acceleration deficit in the corners so depending on the track I'd say its possible my E300D could give a 6.9 a run for its money.

[Eddie Gilmartin]

My ten cents. I live for torque. I've had two 6.9s and multiple 300D's, concluding with a '97 E300Turbodiesel (Euro). Two different worlds. The later CDI diesels are probably superior to a 6.9 in terms of numbers but not aural pleasure. The 300D as a five, then six, then turbo was great but nothing like a 6.9. If you've driven a 6.9 that is sorted, good suspension, good oversize tyres, IT'S SO MUCH FUN! for a 70's taxi/limo. I blew my tranny to bits and ended up buying a donor car which I still have.
I had some serious fun with my E300Turbodiesel. I had it chipped and dyno tested to 210bhp (DIN). Great for doughnuts. Sold it to a taxi driver about five years ago. Still going. Never told him it was chipped.
With both my 6.9's I fitted new OEM spark plug lead sets. Both cars transformed for $80 each.